I’m one of the people who has very recently tried Lemmy and decided to drop Reddit. Initially because I will no longer be able to use SyncForReddit, but now also because I just like the vibe a lot more here than Reddit.
I’m not a massively technical person, but I understood the broad concept of federation - different instances/servers that sync to form a big conversation/forum of sorts.
I heard a lot of people joining and saying positive things about lemmy.world, so I signed up there…and that’s it.
But, am I using it right? Is the idea to sign up in one place and use it to participate across the LemmyVerse/FediVerse? Or should I be seeking out lots of niche instances of interest?
I hear lemmy.world is the biggest instance. What if most people end up here, does that defeat the purpose? Is this inevitable?
You need a critical mass of users, so a quiet instance with few posts is not attractive. If I search for Xbox, there are lots of empty places or places with 3 posts. If there’s one big one (often ends up being in lemmy.world) that’s where I’m subscribing.
How are you using Lemmy, are you participating in a bunch of instances or just one?
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The idea is you can subscribe and interact with any instances, no matter what instance you came from
Sure, most will jump the bandwagon into lemmy.world… at least for the near future. I can say that with confidence because when you search “how to join Lemmy”, most guide will point you to Lemmy.world instead of… lets say… coughLemmynsfwcough
Over time, some will eventually move to other instance (mostly just the account, because they want ‘cool username’ for themselves). Sooner or later, things will balance themselves out.
Maybe you can even start by deploying your own instance, for no other reason than claiming your own ‘cool username’.
most guide will point you to Lemmy.world instead of… lets say… coughLemmynsfwcough
Quiet everyone! Let this person talk!
Please tell us of this magical place…
Sadly I’m pretty sure it’s full of beheadings, not the fun kind of NSFW. But I’m sure soon enough someone will create a lemmy.porn or something.
I’d argue one of the most pressing concerns right now is the lack of migration tools
Currently you can’t just create an account on instance X and move to Y. You need to create a new account. Eventually if we get the functionality to migrate from one place to another, people will be able to spread out across the fediverse and the risk of a single big server going belly up reduced.
From a technical standpoint if one instance gets defederated from other instances, all the users on that instance are stuffed. Their content won’t appear in the wider fediverse (so less engagement)
I’d like to see some sort of export/import functionality as well. Instances will come and go, and it would suck for people on those to just lose their stuff with out having a way to back up/restore it.
Instances can defederate. For instance, lemmy.world was defederated from beehaw because of a bot influx. So if you liked what was on beehaw you’d need another account there.
But generally you only need one account in one instance to see most everything.
So pretty much right now I can’t see any content on beehaw correct? Or can I just not interact with anything from there?
Right now, until such time as they feel like they have the mod team/tools to handle the influx, you won’t be able to see any new posts or comments from Beehaw or its users.
There are old pre-defederation threads from maybe a week or so ago that you could even comment in, but no one on Beehaw’s side would be able to read it until they refederate because your instances aren’t passing that information between each other.
If you both comment on a post from a neutral instance, both of you can see and interact with every other user, but you shouldn’t be able to see each other.
I can still see some of the posts from Beehaw. Can someone explain?
When I first started looking around here, I had no particular reason to pick one instance, so I didn’t. I initially registered with three (kbin.social, lemmy.world and lemmy.one). I was sort of planning to try them out and compare them before settling on one, but I ended up just rotating through them as the mood hit me, and I still use all three. And in fact, I’m planning on adding a couple more.
The thing I like about using multiple instances is that I can change my experience quickly and easily.
Mostly I go back and forth between kbin.social and lemmy.world, and they’re notably different. In the first place, they use different software, so the interfaces are quite different. The kbin software is a bit more feature rich but also a bit harder to get around in while the lemmy software is a bit simpler in both respects. And the instances are notably different, since .world is federated with virtually everyone while kbin.social has defederated from a number of instances, and most notably all of the botfarms.
So kbin.social has less content of generally higher quality, so it feels more serious and sedate, while lemmy.world has more content but a lot of it is botspam, so it feels more hectic and noisy. And I just go to whichever one appeals to me more at the moment.
And I’m actually looking for a couple more. I’d like to find one that’s deliberately reserved and sort of scholarly - high standards and serious discussion - and one that’s overtly goofy snd lighthearted.
And I have no doubt that if they don’t exist, they will.
People keep mentioning the botspam, but I haven’t seen it.
Is it because I stick to my subscribed channels and don’t just haphazardly browse the full-fat Everything feed?
This sounds like a good comprehensive approach that embraces the concept of the Fediverse.
I think I need to get out there and explore a lot more.
Most sane feddiverse user.
Idk how to switch between them. I tried signing into kbin with my Lemmy stuff and it just went nope. Maybe I messed up the password lol but I don’t think so
you can’t do that
(for real)
That. Really sucks. Idk it’s all so fragmented, how do you know what is where and why?
You can’t login to other instances because you don’t need to. And also they don’t have your login credentials (what a mess that would be). But all the content from that instance is already available to you on your homepage and you can comment on it, up vote it… Why would you want to?
But the reason you can’t log in on another server is just like you can’t login to your hotmail address at gmail.com.
I personally host my own instance, from which I interact with communities on many other instances.
This ensures my Lemmy account can’t just be decimated because my admin decided to stop maintaining their instance and I avoid defederation that can block content I’m interested in (including the infighting among larger instances.)
I’ve been debating hosting my own instance. Are you hosting on a cloud platform or a home server?
It only really matters for the “local” feed which instance you choose. I don’t really see much point to that one honestly, except if you’re on something like startrek.website where “local” is “show me all star trek stuff”, or something similar.
And yes, it is important to spread out the user base across multiple servers and not all end up on lemmy.world.
So I’d say find some smaller instance, maybe with a community actually physically local to you, and make that your main one. Or don’t and stay on lemmy.world, I’m not your dad.
Perpetual plug to my userscript which changes all links to point to your home instance to make this even easier :)
Omg fuck yeah, sick userscript! I’ll have to try it tonight. Is this the beginnings of LES? 😁
I’ll probably have post/comment links working tomorrow or Thursday :)
Nice work dude, I see you have the code on GitLab so I can also check it out :)
Yeah as I noticed it became bigger than just a simple few functions I had to do some actual software development :D
Did just split it up into separate files with a build step at the end compiling the actual userscript.
We’re all figuring this out as we go! Since the great Reddit migration, we’ve already seen our first big drama with the Beehaw defederation. Some Beehaw users disagreed and left for other instances while users of other instances liked the move and joined Beehaw. The Lemmy fediverse is what WE make it for better or for worse.
i don’t blame them for not welcoming redditors. they weren’t on reddit for a reason, and now there’s an influx of redditors making a lot of changes.
Sure, but I don’t think beehaw’s philosophy suits the fediverse very well. They want to create a safer space where discussion and disagreement is encouraged, but more closely policed. Which makes sense for a closed system - not one where “unpoliced” users can interact with your community. Otherwise you end up playing server whack-a-mole… exactly like beehaw has done.
Otherwise you end up playing server whack-a-mole
That’s always been a thing in the fediverse. Most instances have a rather large blacklist to block out stuff such as nazi subs and racist subs and worse.
I don’t think beehaw doesn’t fit the fediverse, I do believe it doesn’t fit every user.
As I understand it, they want to be a safe place for a very specific audience, that is, people afraid to be harassed for who they are, that could also include people with extreme social anxiety, that’s why it’s so heavily policed and they defederate from a lot of other instances.
It’s like having a heavily moderated subreddit, you wouldn’t say it doesn’t fit reddit just because they don’t accept contribution from everyone.
The purpose of the fediverse is to have things spread out so one or few nodes dying doesn’t affect the entire system, it’s also about avoiding corporate control, the same principles on which the internet was founded.
I don’t think it means having to trust everyone or accepting everyone into your local group.
The purpose of the fediverse is to have things that are spread out and can talk to each other, right?
My point was only beehaw trying to cultivate a safe space that is closely policed isn’t easily compatible with that baked-in interaction with other spaces which they can’t police. Unless they play server whack-a-mole.
And then once large instances are cut off because they contain too many users to police when they interact on beehaw.org - what’s the point in being part of the fediverse? Why not just be any other type of link aggregating forum?
It would make a little more sense if you could defederate unilaterally (i.e. non beehaw members cannot post on beehaw, but beehaw members can go interact on other instances). But as far as I understand that’s not how it works.
(i.e. non beehaw members cannot post on beehaw, but beehaw members can go interact on other instances). But as far as I understand that’s not how it works.
It depends, you believe that’s not how it works because you’re thinking of both sides defederating each other, but defederation is one-side.
For example, beehaw defederated from lemmy.world but lemmy.world didn’t defederate from beehaw, so lemmy.world people cannot participate on beehaw but beehaw can participate on lemmy.world.
It’s actually a bit more complicated than that, since lemmy.world people can still participate in beehaw discussions but only lemmy.world people would see those comment, I think also other instances that are not defederated can but I’m not sure about this.
You sure about that? I’m pretty certain that unilateral defederation is not possible yet.
I don’t know about kbin but it’s certainly possible on lemmy:
Sure, but I don’t think beehaw’s philosophy suits the fediverse very well.
And what exactly is “fediverse philosophy” according to you? You should probably define that first before saying something like this and see if other people actually agree with it.
I think beehaw’s policy is frankly the only one that makes sense for a fediverse - after all, the more freedom there is on the platform, the more work there has to be put in to maintain the high quality of content and users without getting overrun by trolls, extremists and bad faith actors. I wish other instances were as rigorous when it comes to moderation and user curation otherwise it’s just a matter of time before this becomes more like 4chan than what it is rn.
Image Transcription: Text and Image
[An interconnected diagram with six cloud-shaped bubbles with text and images of the reddit mascot snoo in them are shown. There are lines going between them connecting all of the bubbles to one another in the approximate shape of the fediverse pentagram logo. The top left bubble says “r/aww” and has two images of the reddit mascot. The upper middle bubble has the text “r/gaming” and “r/Music” with one image of the mascot. The top right bubble says “r/funny” with one mascot, the lower left says “r/Pics” and “r/science” with one mascot, the lower right says “r/art” and “r/ask science” with two mascots, and the bottom centre bubble has the words “r/space” and r/videos" with one reddit mascot. The Lemmy logo, a black and white cartoon mouse head, sits in the bottom left corner of the image. Below the web of connected bubbles, there are three small cartoon drawings of people standing next to each other, with the text “Lemmy devs” beside them, and a large purple speech bubble above them that reads as follows]
We donated Lemmy to the world, we can’t control what people do with it.
^I’m a human volunteer transcribing posts in a format compatible with screen readers, for blind and visually impaired users!^
I’m trying out using my lemmy instance as a personal blog, more or less.
I have one community with pretty locked down settings and super SFW policy. Over time I will post things that might be of interest or that I want to show off. I selectively subscribe to some other communities on larger instances to get some visibility and be part of the conversation. But really Im using lemmy to drive traffic to my custom domain and as a way to SEO.
I have another personal use account on another instance I don’t own but that I align with philosophically. That’s where I keep my main collection of communities Im interested in.
I generally scroll through either local or everything sorted by “New Comments”. That’s why I’m replying to this two month old post, because someone else did, so it rose to the top. Feels like a combination of Reddit and a classic forum where you’d have posts that would get bumped by activity.
2 months old?! Oops.
I subscribe to communities on multiple instances. My main activity is on our niche instance. If people are happy signing up at lemmy.world and limiting themselves to the communities available there, I see nothing wrong with that.
That being said, I think if you search lemmy.world for wetshaving, as an example, our instance does show up in the results because there is federated cross-over (for lack of a better term).
I’m just figuring out how to use this platform.
I think I may have figured out how to comment. That’s um. About it lol.
I can’t see your comment
Wait seriously?
Who said that
Lmfao you suck haha. I’m actually so confused by this site rn
youll be fine :)
I don’t understand the fediverse at all but I’m starting to slowly get the hang of some of this I think. Maybe. Idk.
And thanks!!! :]
I signed up on a smaller instance and only follow a couple of communities there, so I had to go out and search for things I was interested in. I pretty much just subscribed to anything that sounded remotely interesting, figuring I could leave later.
i mostly found stuff with https://browse.feddit.de/ and https://lemmyverse.net/, as well as just going to the bigger instances and looking at the local lists for anything interesting. So I’m following communities across several of the larger severs - lemmy.world, lemmy.ml, beehaw.org, kbin.social, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ca - and a few smaller ones that sounded interesting or relevant. Also fedidb.org is a nice tool to see info about the fediverse in general, including stats on Lemmy and Kbin servers.
This seems like a good comprehensive approach. I need to explore more I think.
i think the whole design of most of these the platforms missed out a better paradigm. It’s super restrictive and terrible for global discovery to have content communities and account communities be one thing. To me the design only really creates a good experience if you don’t need the fediverse and what’s outside your instance’s walls. Instances that people browse should ideally act more like a subreddit vs an entire reddit. People should add different servers from people or groups that run a community that you want to see posts from. Your main feed app would aggregate the diverse set of communities that make up a persons interests. the current system forces you to pick which restrictive box you describe yourself as, and then makes discover-ability and interactivity of everything outside of that bubble a terrible chore. I think maybe one day Nostr might be able to do something like that with its relay technology. Right now the relays focus more on being like a customized redundancy, but I think that community relays could work similarly. Nostr is weird because in ways it’s simpler but also not packaged so that it feels that way. It feels more complicated, but it’s early days.
So theoretically you should be able to make one account and view a majority of content. This is barring of course any instances or communities defederated from your home instance.
There’s merit in making a community for your interest on your home instance even if you’re subscribed to it on a different instance, for reasons like outages and a diversity of content. Lemmy being bigger than other instances just means there’s more content available here, but if you like the layout of kbin or Mastodon or what have you better you can still see it all.
Plus, just because two instances are federated doesn’t mean the users actually see all the information exchanged. You have to actually opt into it which is cool- ie if an instances particular community is problematic you can just block it and sub to the rest.
Edit: got so wrapped up in my TED talk I forgot to mention- I’m currently trying out Lemmy, sh.itjust.works, and kbin.social until I can settle on one (hopefully kbin gets an app soon lol.)
tl;dr: don’t make a community on your own instance unless you intend for it to be a divergent population or discussion from one that already exists.
There’s merit in making a community for your interest on your home instance even if you’re subscribed to it on a different instance, for reasons like outages and a diversity of content.
I’m going to disagree with you on this point. Communities of (nominally) identical purpose probably shouldn’t exist in an ideal fediverse. Because these communities are not linked it fractures the user base and/or requires a great deal more work on the human side to manage. Example: 3 communities about Akron, Ohio. If you want to know what’s happening in Akron, you have to subscribe to, and manage, three distinct community feeds. Participants won’t all be subscribed, so people with interest in the dog park on one community won’t get input from people who have dogs on other communities. If I want to put up a flyer for my band which is giving away free beer for coming to our show at the city festival, I have to put it up on all three communities separately and then monitor all three threads for activity.
Alternatively, the ability to create alternate communities of the same focus is not a necessarily a bug. If I’m on an instance which hates beer and dogs, I would want to create an Akron community where I don’t have to hear about those drunkards parading their precious fur babies around town like the own the place. I can say all the negative things I want to about beer or dogs while discussing important festival events like the goldfish-bowl-pingpong-ball vendor who always has the most vibrantly colored fish stacked in their prize bags.
While this is a made up example, there are two reddit subs for the game Elite Dangerous and it’s the best for the two player bases because they have split along the lines of PVP/Seal Clubbing and Co-op/world generation and, generally, fucking hate one another. That’s a good reason to have split instances here on the fediverse.
