Apple has offered to open up the iPhone near-field communication (NFC) system that Apple Pay uses to other payment services, in a possible effort to...
Have you literally done zero research into this? The vast majority of merchants in the US, and nearly 100% in many other countries, accept Apple Pay. Doesn’t that strike you as awfully high if they actually had to sign up for it with Apple? And add an entirely new payment processor to their operations?
Apple is not involved in any capacity with processing Apple Pay transactions when you tap your device in a business. A Visa card loaded on an iPhone is literally just a contactless Visa. Apple Pay = Google Pay = physical contactless card. One single industry-standard protocol.
For web/app transactions, a merchant has to set up Apple Pay explicitly (though it’s still actually processed by the same parties as entering the card number) but for in person, they just need contactless payments enabled on their card terminal. No extra steps, parties, or fees.
Hey, exciting to see people so passionate about this! The other user is correct that Apple is not involved with the processing of purchase transactions. Pulled this from LinkedIn:
Top portion is the provisioning flow, bottom portion is the purchase transaction flow. As you can see the transaction is between the customer, acquirer, card network, and issuing bank. Apple involvement not required as the card network does the work of decrypting the payment token.
So the other user’s statement that
Apple is not involved in any capacity with processing transactions when you tap your device in a business.
Bruh there is a giant icon that says “Apple servers” in that photo so I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Yes, that is correct. As I pointed out, the top flow in the graphic is the provisioning flow, the flow by which Apple Pay payment credentials (device primary account number, DPAN) are created.
The bottom flow is a purchase transaction flow, that’s what occurs when a user is making a purchase transaction at a store. There is no involvement from Apple Pay servers in processing those transactions. Credentials are sent from the device, to the point of sale terminal, to the acquirer, to the card network, to the card issuer, and back again.
It’s literally called “Apple Pay” and you’re gonna try to convince me that Apple has nothing to do with processing payments? Not likely.
In case you’re not just trolling, I encourage you to learn more about this topic. It’s pretty cool how Apple Pay works.
At this point I vote we just consider it trolling. The best case alternative is that it’s merely aggressively-protected ignorance, and that’s not worth engaging with either.
I work with this technology, as well as dozens of actual payments processors, every day, so I find what they’re saying absurd and … just, the strangest hill to die on.
I’ve tagged them as a troll. If your app allows it, I suggest you do the same.
If you remove the “provisioning flow” does the payment still get processed?
I think I catch your meaning: it seems you’re arguing that provisioning is a necessary prerequisite to using Apple Pay.
While that is true that you must have set up Apple Pay in order to use Apple Pay, the provisioning flow is not part of payment processing.
A good definition of what is meant by payments processing (from Stripe):
Payment processing is the sequence of actions that securely transfer funds between a payer and a payee. Typically, it involves the authorization, verification, and settlement of transactions through electronic payment systems.
In that process, detailed in the flow diagram from my earlier comment, Apple Pay servers do not play a role.
I think I catch your meaning: it seems you’re arguing that provisioning is a necessary prerequisite to using Apple Pay.
No, that’s not what I said. I said “provisioning” is part of the payment process. If you remove Apple Pay, there is no payment processed. Ergo Apple Pay is part of the process. This is not complicated.
Payment processing is the sequence of actions that securely transfer funds between a payer and a payee. Typically, it involves the authorization, verification, and settlement of transactions through electronic payment systems.
I don’t understand how you can write that out and then immediately turn around and tell me that Apple Pay has nothing to do with any of it, because it’s describing the process of Apple Pay very clearly and succinctly.
I feel like I’ve entered some Twilight Zone. You just keep repeating the same absurd claims about something but if you had ever researched it in any capacity you’d know how false those claims are.
No they don’t. The vast majority don’t even accept Apple, Google, or Samsung Pay, credit cards only.
Look, it’s really simple: If a store accepts contactless cards, it by definition accepts Apple Pay. They are the same thing to the merchant. There are zero merchants that take contactless cards but can’t take Apple Pay.
One great benefit of using Apple Pay is that it doesn’t cost business owners anything extra. Payment processors consider it a normal credit card transaction, so you’ll only pay regular card processing fees. The only upfront cost involved might be upgrading your POS terminal.
Once you have the right contactless payment-capable POS, there are no additional fees you, the merchant, will have to pay for using Apple Pay. As a business owner, you will pay the same credit card rates and fees as you would for a card-present transaction.
Yes, they absolutely do.
Not even close. You need to do more research.
Have you literally done zero research into this? The vast majority of merchants in the US, and nearly 100% in many other countries, accept Apple Pay. Doesn’t that strike you as awfully high if they actually had to sign up for it with Apple? And add an entirely new payment processor to their operations?
Apple is not involved in any capacity with processing Apple Pay transactions when you tap your device in a business. A Visa card loaded on an iPhone is literally just a contactless Visa. Apple Pay = Google Pay = physical contactless card. One single industry-standard protocol.
For web/app transactions, a merchant has to set up Apple Pay explicitly (though it’s still actually processed by the same parties as entering the card number) but for in person, they just need contactless payments enabled on their card terminal. No extra steps, parties, or fees.
I’ve clearly done far more research than you have
No they don’t. The vast majority don’t even accept Apple, Google, or Samsung Pay, credit cards only.
No one said they had to sign up for it with Apple.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and I’m done repeating myself.
Hey, exciting to see people so passionate about this! The other user is correct that Apple is not involved with the processing of purchase transactions. Pulled this from LinkedIn:
Top portion is the provisioning flow, bottom portion is the purchase transaction flow. As you can see the transaction is between the customer, acquirer, card network, and issuing bank. Apple involvement not required as the card network does the work of decrypting the payment token.
So the other user’s statement that
Is accurate.
That graphic is really good. I’ve seen a lot of graphics that try to explain it but most of them make mistakes; that one is surprisingly perfect.
Bruh there is a giant icon that says “Apple servers” in that photo so I have no idea what you’re talking about.
It’s literally called “Apple Pay” and you’re gonna try to convince me that Apple has nothing to do with processing payments? Not likely.
Are credit card providers also using Apple servers to not process payments? Because that is what the other user also claimed.
Yes, that is correct. As I pointed out, the top flow in the graphic is the provisioning flow, the flow by which Apple Pay payment credentials (device primary account number, DPAN) are created.
The bottom flow is a purchase transaction flow, that’s what occurs when a user is making a purchase transaction at a store. There is no involvement from Apple Pay servers in processing those transactions. Credentials are sent from the device, to the point of sale terminal, to the acquirer, to the card network, to the card issuer, and back again.
In case you’re not just trolling, I encourage you to learn more about this topic. It’s pretty cool how Apple Pay works.
At this point I vote we just consider it trolling. The best case alternative is that it’s merely aggressively-protected ignorance, and that’s not worth engaging with either.
Agreed. In any case, hopefully someone finds this thread informative!
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Hey, OP commenter here, you have been fully correct throughout this thread. Here is an apple engineer explicitly stating that you’re correct.
I work with this technology, as well as dozens of actual payments processors, every day, so I find what they’re saying absurd and … just, the strangest hill to die on.
I’ve tagged them as a troll. If your app allows it, I suggest you do the same.
deleted by creator
If you remove the “provisioning flow” does the payment still get processed?
And I encourage you to Google the words “payment” and “process”.
I know how it works.
I think I catch your meaning: it seems you’re arguing that provisioning is a necessary prerequisite to using Apple Pay.
While that is true that you must have set up Apple Pay in order to use Apple Pay, the provisioning flow is not part of payment processing.
A good definition of what is meant by payments processing (from Stripe):
In that process, detailed in the flow diagram from my earlier comment, Apple Pay servers do not play a role.
Ha! Well all the best to you.
No, that’s not what I said. I said “provisioning” is part of the payment process. If you remove Apple Pay, there is no payment processed. Ergo Apple Pay is part of the process. This is not complicated.
I don’t understand how you can write that out and then immediately turn around and tell me that Apple Pay has nothing to do with any of it, because it’s describing the process of Apple Pay very clearly and succinctly.
I feel like I’ve entered some Twilight Zone. You just keep repeating the same absurd claims about something but if you had ever researched it in any capacity you’d know how false those claims are.
“Apple Pay is accepted at over 85 percent of retailers in the U.S.”
Look, it’s really simple: If a store accepts contactless cards, it by definition accepts Apple Pay. They are the same thing to the merchant. There are zero merchants that take contactless cards but can’t take Apple Pay.
As for costs, a random sampling:
Forbes:
US Chamber of Commerce: