I am really struggling to replace facebook messenger / whatsapp for a few casual conversations. My friends and I are all wanting to move away. We are not heavy users of this but need it to work. I think the requirements are:

  • floss client for android, linux, windows

  • persistent history across devices

  • reasonable security

  • don’t need to self host server

  • can send a message to offline user, they get it when they come online

  • not tied to or reliant on phone number / cell service

  • ETA: end user documentation explaining how to set up and common troubleshooting

tried:

  • matrix: the thing with having to keep track of room keys and stuff is too complicated. every time someone uses a new device it is a ton of issues and we could never quite get it ironed out

  • signal: tied to phone number, no history across devices

  • xmpp: similar to matrix the key situation is confusing, also no cross device history

  • ETA: simpleX: a lot of people here are mentioning simpleX. It didn’t come up in previous investigations so will give it a shot.

    • ETA 2: It doesn’t seem to have persistent history across devices. Clarification?

I actually didn’t think this would be such a problem but it is breaking us. we don’t need a lot of sophisticated features like voice, video, moderation, 1000s of participants, spam protection etc that seem to be of concern to the projects. just simple text chat.

  • 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍@midwest.social
    42·
    11 months ago

    Session satisfies all your points. It started life as a fork of Signal, but is not tied to any PII. Synced across devices, everything. iOS, too, even. The only thing it doesn’t have is a terminal client, but it’s easly days.

    I’ve tried them all; so far Session is the only one that passes the non-tech-spouse test. We were happy sith Wire for a couple of years, but it’s been going through some severe enshittification in the post several months.

    Edit fixed the fdroid repo URL

    • linuxPIPEpower@discuss.tchncs.deOP
      102·
      11 months ago

      so if you click documentation on the session website it brings you to this page https://docs.oxen.io/oxen-docs/products-built-on-oxen/session

      I am seeing the words “blockchain”, “economics”, “token”, “instant transactions”… And one click to NFT crypto stuff.

      I remember hearing that blockchain tech could be used for stuff other than scams but it is used for scams a lot and this app seems to be related to scam-type activity.

      Can someone provide any insight?

      • 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍@midwest.social
        4·
        11 months ago

        a. not all blockchain is bad b. I have neither seen, nor heard, of blockchain or cryptocoins on the platform. If blockchain is being used under the covers, it’s not visible to users. I see no ability to do anything with NFTs or cryptocoins in any of the clients.

        Session delivers messages more reliably than many platforms; E2E encrypts all messages (unencrypted is not even an option); requires no PII; has a good battery profile on mobile; reliably allows sharing, and has nice QOL features (that my non-tech family members have come to expect) like animated GIF search-and-embed; it supports message deletion and dissapearing messages; it has encrypted voice and video chat.

        If there’s any blockchain in the stack, then Session is an excellent example of its usefulness.

        It’s all open-source, too, so audit away.

        It’s not perfect, of course. There’s no CLI client. Because there’s no PII, there’s no registry, so connecting to people is harder than many platforms, and looking people up, impossible. The desktop client is an Electron app, so it’s typically resource hungry. It doesn’t yet have sent message editing.

        • linuxPIPEpower@discuss.tchncs.deOP
          11·
          11 months ago

          Well I will say that I totally didn’t predict crypto would pop up in this thread. Curious.

          getsession.org > Technicals > Documentation > Overview

          In exchange for maintaining reliable and trustworthy blockchain nodes, node operators periodically receive rewards in the form of $OXEN tokens.

          It sounds like what it is saying is that people who host the remote servers are paid in this crypto currency for the service. Cryptocurrency is mainly useful for laundering money and scamming people. I am having a hard time understanding (a) how there is enough demand for this niche chat service that it should play a major role in their little economy, and (b) where the usefulness of this crypto (e.g. value in fiat so you can do anything with it) could possible some in. Other than scams, laundering etc.

          After that comes

          long blah blah blah about crypto

          Oxen was originally forked from Monero, and it’s still based on the CryptoNote protocol. From these beginnings, Oxen has inherited world class privacy and security features — including ring signatures, stealth addresses, and ring confidential transactions. Just like $XMR, $OXEN is fungible, private, and untraceable.

          The Oxen blockchain got started in 2018, with its first ever block being confirmed on March 5 of that year. Ever since then, the blockchain has been successfully and securely operating. On October 15 2019, we made the transition to Pulse — making Oxen one of the first ever Proof of Stake CryptoNote projects. The entire history of the Oxen blockchain can be easily viewed via this block explorer. As for the future, you can stay up to date on the project by checking out our Oxen Labs Updates.

          The Oxen blockchain also boasts Blink — truly private, instant transactions. Blink allows you to make transactions with all the confidence Monero enthusiasts love, but with a 1 second transaction time. Blink gives $OXEN the potential to be used as a true means of value exchange — not just storage — in a way no other coin can match.

          It’s so… weird… to have all this as the introductory docs. Not a troubleshooting guide or dependency info but all this crazy scam BS.

          I see that you are saying this crypto stuff doesn’t intrude on the app. Like you are not getting popups trying to scam you; OK. And you think the app is really good. Can the server/app could be de coupled from all this other stuff? Could it be run independently of this fake economy? That’s what I don’t understand about this “not crypto” blockchain stuff. If it’s not crypto, why is the documentation all about crypto instead of normal user or dev manual?

          I appreciate the time to answer the question. But I have to be honest this feels icky. Don’t you get the feeling something sleazy is going on? At any rate when these people get caught or cash out won’t everything vanish?

          • linuxPIPEpower@discuss.tchncs.deOP
            1·
            11 months ago

            Sorry that was pretty unclear lol

            I was linking to another comment I wrote in this thread about this very strange cryptocurrency-based chat thing. I sort of had the impression maybe you have some prior knowledge of this. I never heard of it and find it puzzling just what the heck they are up to. I am not gonna use it because it smells bad. But am now interested to know what sort of business is going on. The person who recommended it sounds very satisfied with the chat interface. Why/how is it attached to crypto? Just… so weird.

            • erAck@discuss.tchncs.de
              2·
              11 months ago
              • Session connects to Oxen Service Nodes.
              • One can run such node only if one buys into $OXEN.

              That already is sufficient to stay away.

              Additionally, node operators are rewarded in $OXEN for services offered on nodes, mined on the Oxen blockchain.

              If these nodes cease to operate, Session will be dead.