Man I knew it was a bad idea to engage with the tankies.
Since you completely missed to part about capitalism being combined with socialism to take advantages away from the rich and give them to others, I’ll say it again: I’m talking about tightly regulated capitalism with strong socialist policies.
Your description of capitalism here is the furthest fucking thing from what I’m talking about.
Socialism (in my perspective as an anarchist) seeks to allow people to live their lives with the maximal amount of freedom, self determination, and autonomy possible.
That’s hilarious because that exactly what capitalists say about capitalism.
You’re calling me, an anarchist, a tankie? Do you even know what that word means? I know you read the part of my comment where I said I was an anarchist because you quoted it.
The combination of capitalism and socialism is called democratic socialism. It doesn’t work long term. The Nordic model is essentially democratic socialism put to practice and it’s gone well for the people in Nordic countries. They still suffer from capital strikes and other problems that are only going to get worse with time. These countries still rely on exploitation of people in the global south. Nestle is a swedish company with a terrible past. They have literally killed babies, use slave labor, and destroy ecosystems to extract wealth from poor countries. Spotify is another swedish company with a problematic track record. They’re not alone either. H&M, IKEA and Nokia have all had sketchy track records. Why do Nordic companies have so many things wrong with them if they’re companies founded in the “ideal” countries? Could it be because of inherent problems in capitalism? Nah! The system just needs tinkering, it’ll all work out don’t you worry!
I’ll concede, the social problems in these countries are much smaller than, say, the US. They have managed to increase the quality of life of their polity. It’s not perfect but it’s better than what we have and it will continue to be that way for a little while longer until capital is able to erode those collective benefits further to increase their bottom line. Which they have done and will continue to do. See Canada and the UK for an idea of what the nordic countries will eventually devolve into and then have a look at the US for something closer to the end goal.
That’s hilarious because that exactly what capitalists say about capitalism
Capitalists are right.Capitalists have freedom, autonomy, and self determination. Problem is, most of us aren’t capitalists and we don’t have access to the material resources wealth gives you access to. And it has to be that way. There are very few that the above terms apply to and the overwhelming majority of us are excluded from the benefits of capitalism. “Work or starve” is the status quo for a reason.
All of this isn’t even getting into the whole “infinite growth is impossible and it’s killing the planet” thing. Capitalism will literally be the death of us and no amount of reforms are going to stop it. Capitalism is predicated on the assumption that infinite growth is possible and necessary. There are so many destructive and inhumane aspects to the ideology that at some point, it will become obvious that it can’t be fixed. For a long time feudalism seemed like a perfectly good system that should be upheld. Sure there were problems, but it just needed to be tweaked. Do you know how that ended? Revolution.
Do you have anything substantive to say about the benefits of capitalism and democratic socialism or are you determined to have your head so far up your ass that polite criticism of the status quo makes you feel personally attacked? I didn’t miss anything about your comment and if you knew a bit more about the things you’re talking about you would see that. Instead of being a reactive anus for no good reason, why don’t you try to understand what I’m saying? It’s clear that you don’t. I’d be happy to leave some resources for you to read up a little if you’re interested in understanding what you’re defending and what you’re claiming to be against. Books, videos, articles, podcasts, just name your preferred method of media consumption and I’ll leave something for you
Woah you escalated that quickly. Breathe. You guys were having a reasonable discussion that was enjoyable for me to read until you pulled out the insults and curses for some reason.
Man I knew it was a bad idea to engage with the tankies.
Since you completely missed to part about capitalism being combined with socialism to take advantages away from the rich and give them to others, I’ll say it again: I’m talking about tightly regulated capitalism with strong socialist policies.
Your description of capitalism here is the furthest fucking thing from what I’m talking about.
That’s hilarious because that exactly what capitalists say about capitalism.
You’re calling me, an anarchist, a tankie? Do you even know what that word means? I know you read the part of my comment where I said I was an anarchist because you quoted it.
The combination of capitalism and socialism is called democratic socialism. It doesn’t work long term. The Nordic model is essentially democratic socialism put to practice and it’s gone well for the people in Nordic countries. They still suffer from capital strikes and other problems that are only going to get worse with time. These countries still rely on exploitation of people in the global south. Nestle is a swedish company with a terrible past. They have literally killed babies, use slave labor, and destroy ecosystems to extract wealth from poor countries. Spotify is another swedish company with a problematic track record. They’re not alone either. H&M, IKEA and Nokia have all had sketchy track records. Why do Nordic companies have so many things wrong with them if they’re companies founded in the “ideal” countries? Could it be because of inherent problems in capitalism? Nah! The system just needs tinkering, it’ll all work out don’t you worry!
I’ll concede, the social problems in these countries are much smaller than, say, the US. They have managed to increase the quality of life of their polity. It’s not perfect but it’s better than what we have and it will continue to be that way for a little while longer until capital is able to erode those collective benefits further to increase their bottom line. Which they have done and will continue to do. See Canada and the UK for an idea of what the nordic countries will eventually devolve into and then have a look at the US for something closer to the end goal.
Capitalists are right.Capitalists have freedom, autonomy, and self determination. Problem is, most of us aren’t capitalists and we don’t have access to the material resources wealth gives you access to. And it has to be that way. There are very few that the above terms apply to and the overwhelming majority of us are excluded from the benefits of capitalism. “Work or starve” is the status quo for a reason.
All of this isn’t even getting into the whole “infinite growth is impossible and it’s killing the planet” thing. Capitalism will literally be the death of us and no amount of reforms are going to stop it. Capitalism is predicated on the assumption that infinite growth is possible and necessary. There are so many destructive and inhumane aspects to the ideology that at some point, it will become obvious that it can’t be fixed. For a long time feudalism seemed like a perfectly good system that should be upheld. Sure there were problems, but it just needed to be tweaked. Do you know how that ended? Revolution.
Do you have anything substantive to say about the benefits of capitalism and democratic socialism or are you determined to have your head so far up your ass that polite criticism of the status quo makes you feel personally attacked? I didn’t miss anything about your comment and if you knew a bit more about the things you’re talking about you would see that. Instead of being a reactive anus for no good reason, why don’t you try to understand what I’m saying? It’s clear that you don’t. I’d be happy to leave some resources for you to read up a little if you’re interested in understanding what you’re defending and what you’re claiming to be against. Books, videos, articles, podcasts, just name your preferred method of media consumption and I’ll leave something for you
You cannot have private ownership of the means of production and also worker control of the means of production.
When you say capitalism with lots of socialism that is what we hear, and it is nonsensical.
Why did you shift tone so suddenly? Their argument was reasonable.
Woah you escalated that quickly. Breathe. You guys were having a reasonable discussion that was enjoyable for me to read until you pulled out the insults and curses for some reason.