What’s great about this, and Stephen Fry is brilliant, is not that he’s absolving Musk, or that he’s criticizing Tesla, but that it is an argument likely leading to Elon Musk protesting,

‘No, my cars are good enough that I can be a Nazi!’

  • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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    13 hours ago

    A small country took on the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD (TWICE) and very nearly won. The second time with a lunatic at the helm.

    What does it take to impress you? To what would you assign their disturbing success?

    • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
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      20 minutes ago

      Incredible. Literally everything you just said was wrong.

      Germany wasn’t “a small country”. They were an industrialised, highly productive and heavily armed global power. They were slightly battered by post ww1 humiliation regulations pressed on them by the winners (because they ALSO lost that one!). But the instant they told the Allies to eat shit and started using what they had, any claim to “smallness” went out the window.

      And they didn’t “almost win”. They got their asses kicked.

      Every single thing the Nazis wanted to achieve, they failed hard. They wanted to prove the genetic superiority of the German people in the Olympics, instead they were soundly beat. They wanted to expand their territory, they got as far as fucking Poland and France and then stalled for years until a double whammy of Americans and Russians basically curb-stomped them, with the last few years of the Reich consisting of lots of propaganda coping hard about how their soon to come wonder weapons would turn the tide, which never happened because said wonder weapons were stupid ideas that only succeeded at getting more Nazis killed when they failed in testing. They wanted to stop the spread of communism, instead half their country became Soviet domain.

      And then their “strongman” leader blasted his own brains out rather than face the fact that he was a loser in every way one can be a loser.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 hours ago

      Nazis took on world in one war, and lost.

      “WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! THE PUREST OF THE PURE! STRONGEST OF THE STRONG!”

      [Fights one (1) war]

      “Guess we’ll shoot ourselves in a bunker and lose in a big lopsided defeat.”

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      At no point did they “nearly win” against the world. In World War 1 they made desperate attempts to break out of trench warfare because the blockade was obliterating their wartime economy. In World War 2 they were cooked the second they invaded the USSR and the USA landed in the UK. Those were unwinnable areas for them. Even if they eventually managed to wear down the British, the Americans were right behind them manufacturing 100 tanks a day and 15 Aircraft Carriers in 1943 alone. Which means all of those tanks are getting to the European theater.

      And once the USSR got it’s production under way the Germans were on the defensive all the way back to Berlin.

    • droplet6585@lemmy.ml
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      13 hours ago

      Small country? They were a highly industrialized, highly educated and still quite materially wealthy colonial power going into the wars. They didn’t need to be competent. Enough people went along with them and there was plenty of residual wealth to burn on the war machine.

      You don’t need to be an architect to burn down a building.

      • WalnutLum@lemmy.ml
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        1 hour ago

        Germany didn’t really have much wealth after WW1 due to the restrictions placed on them from the western powers.

        Most of the reason the Nazi party was popular early on was them championing a number of socialist policies designed to bring the country out an economic morass.

        This is a really good book on the subject (and part of a really good trilogy of books about understanding Nazi Germany): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/319473.The_Coming_of_the_Third_Reich

    • DefinitelyNotAPhone [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      10 hours ago

      Germany was always the second strongest imperial power in Europe behind Britain from 1871 onwards, and without the English channel that would be debatable.

      The Nazis’ initial success in WW2 is entirely dependent on France falling apart the second they were invaded and the Reich getting to loot the entirety of it and the low countries to keep their economy alive. Had France put up even token resistance Germany would have imploded within a few months and the European half of the war would’ve been a minor footnote in the history books next to Japan invading all of Asia.

    • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      12 hours ago

      At no point were the Nazis close to winning. After the Soviets won the battle of Stalingrad in 1943 the Nazis were on full retreat until Berlin got captured.

      Even leading up to up 1943, Germany had its oil nearly cut off. They became dependent on Romania for their supply. This may sound like a cartoon, but Nazis were dragging their tanks to the frontline using horses.

      Germany simply did not have the industrial or logistic capacity to win WW2 at any point. The Nazis had already ransacked the German economy through privatization reforms and selling off anything that wasn’t nailed down. Invading Poland incurred a bunch of sanctions and embargos that resulted in Germany’s only primary oil trade coming from uhhh…the Soviet Union, so the Nazis had the brilliant idea of declaring war on their main source of gasoline.

      • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 hour ago

        I think that they were winning before they invaded the Soviet-Union.

        In an alternate timeline where they kept the alliance with the USSR, I think they would have won.

        The USSR had resources while Germany had engineers and technology.

        And without an eastern Front, they could have held off the allies on the western front.

        But they got cocky, paranoid and greedy.

        And I am glad they lost.

    • TankieTanuki [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      13 hours ago

      To what would you assign their disturbing success?

      Material support from the Western ruling class who wanted Hitler to destroy communism for them.

      • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        12 hours ago

        This, the biggest mistake Germany made was interfering with dominant western European capital (i.e. the US, UK, and France). If they had just devoured the eastern European countries and fought Russia then capital would not have batted an eye.

    • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      12 hours ago

      What does it take to impress you? To what would you assign their disturbing success?

      Meth chocolate, fascism, and taking on armies using WWI tech and tactics

        • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          11 hours ago

          Yup, biggest thing is that their attack, though expected by quite a few powers, came out of left field and add in the rushing forward on armies still using cavalry units and the early massive land grab via Germany makes sense

    • Sonori@beehaw.org
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      10 hours ago

      Do Japan and Italy just not count as part of the world? I mean Japan took over half of Asia and the Pasific while Italy took the Mediterranean countries. Germany took over part of northern Europe and helped a bit of North Africa.