I’m not an expert on these things, but I’m pretty sure Russians and Ukrainians are doing a fine job of killing each other without direct U.S. intervention.
We sent 76 billion dollars worth of aid to Ukraine in a year and a half. That is four times their own defense budget for 2023. We’re funding their defense. It’s a proxy war between US and Russia. I mean, we’ve already been intervening – in 2014 we were trying to influence the outcome of their government during their revolution, you can read some analysis here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
Edit: if you flipped it on it’s head, this war is like if Mexico had a revolution that overthrew their corrupt government, and while the protests were happening Russia was supporting key members of the ones overthrowing the government. US feels threatened that our neighbor is strengthening ties with our enemy, and so we invade Mexico. It’s obviously not right for the US to invade sovereign Mexico. It’s obviously not right that Russia is fucking around in Mexico’s revolution. But in this case, Russia doesn’t care if Mexico beats back the invading US, they just want to keep supplying them with weapons to prop up Russia’s own domestic “defense” industry, prop up the economy, claim moral necessity, unite the party against a common enemy, bobs your uncle, you’re elected again
One years’ defence budget to decimate the entire military capability of one of the US biggest rivals. That’s just a good deal. And it’s insane to bring up US interference in Ukrainian politics when that’s the exact thing Russia has been doing since forever. Russia has considered Ukraine a vassal state since the time of the Tsar, but somehow America is the one trying to mess with their sovereignty? Delusional propaganda.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say I’m delusional about, or what you’re trying to claim is propaganda, but nice lil throw-in there. Good to see you’re not actually trying to have a conversation.
It seems you’ve entirely missed the point though. Of course Russia would rather Ukraine as their subject, and that they would rather they have a russia-friendly government (after all, a third of Ukraine speaks Russian).
There is no justification for Russia invading Ukraine.
But the US has actually done nothing to try to end this war, and has done much to provoke it, and I think that’s because we have a perpetual war economy. You said it yourself, it’s a good deal to weaken our rivals – we don’t actually need American troops on the ground, but we can still fight the evil Russians, hoo-rah! Fuck them communists! Talk about hawkish propaganda.
Edit: oh, and by the way, if you really want to argue that US should be in this proxy war because Russia is a big US “rival”: Russia’s GDP is ~2 trillion dollars compared to the US 26 trillion, so not exactly economic rivals, and comparing NATO vs Russia military prowess isnt much of a fairer balance. So how do you mean that Russia is a US rival? Historically, sure, but we shouldn’t go invading everyone considered a historical “rival,” should we?
I’m not an expert on these things, but I’m pretty sure Russians and Ukrainians are doing a fine job of killing each other without direct U.S. intervention.
We sent 76 billion dollars worth of aid to Ukraine in a year and a half. That is four times their own defense budget for 2023. We’re funding their defense. It’s a proxy war between US and Russia. I mean, we’ve already been intervening – in 2014 we were trying to influence the outcome of their government during their revolution, you can read some analysis here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
Edit: if you flipped it on it’s head, this war is like if Mexico had a revolution that overthrew their corrupt government, and while the protests were happening Russia was supporting key members of the ones overthrowing the government. US feels threatened that our neighbor is strengthening ties with our enemy, and so we invade Mexico. It’s obviously not right for the US to invade sovereign Mexico. It’s obviously not right that Russia is fucking around in Mexico’s revolution. But in this case, Russia doesn’t care if Mexico beats back the invading US, they just want to keep supplying them with weapons to prop up Russia’s own domestic “defense” industry, prop up the economy, claim moral necessity, unite the party against a common enemy, bobs your uncle, you’re elected again
One years’ defence budget to decimate the entire military capability of one of the US biggest rivals. That’s just a good deal. And it’s insane to bring up US interference in Ukrainian politics when that’s the exact thing Russia has been doing since forever. Russia has considered Ukraine a vassal state since the time of the Tsar, but somehow America is the one trying to mess with their sovereignty? Delusional propaganda.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say I’m delusional about, or what you’re trying to claim is propaganda, but nice lil throw-in there. Good to see you’re not actually trying to have a conversation.
It seems you’ve entirely missed the point though. Of course Russia would rather Ukraine as their subject, and that they would rather they have a russia-friendly government (after all, a third of Ukraine speaks Russian).
There is no justification for Russia invading Ukraine.
But the US has actually done nothing to try to end this war, and has done much to provoke it, and I think that’s because we have a perpetual war economy. You said it yourself, it’s a good deal to weaken our rivals – we don’t actually need American troops on the ground, but we can still fight the evil Russians, hoo-rah! Fuck them communists! Talk about hawkish propaganda.
Edit: oh, and by the way, if you really want to argue that US should be in this proxy war because Russia is a big US “rival”: Russia’s GDP is ~2 trillion dollars compared to the US 26 trillion, so not exactly economic rivals, and comparing NATO vs Russia military prowess isnt much of a fairer balance. So how do you mean that Russia is a US rival? Historically, sure, but we shouldn’t go invading everyone considered a historical “rival,” should we?