As a complete noob who installed Mint about two weeks ago, I have Thoughts™. This is a good start, I think., and I’m really glad to see it, but it still makes some assumptions and misses a couple of things I came across that I think would be helpful.

I’ll try to find some time tomorrow to pull together some edits and suggestions to share, rather than a bunch of comments here.

How’s best to share them back?

Sorry, yes you do. Because it’s so interlinked in my mind I got that wrong. But deffot the easiest way to do it I’ve found (as long as you’re using proton mail though, I guess…)

I don’t, I’m afraid. But I can say that creating and managing them through protons password manager is a breeze.

I use Proton Mail, which lets you make ‘aliases’, which you can use for different sites. The alias forward staright to your main (or a nominated) email.

You can use https://simplelogin.io/ to do the same, and I’m sure there are similar services around.

E.g. I can’t have feckwhatsapp@feckfacebook.com as my WhatsApp email, and it would forward to whatever account I normally use.

I do this for pretty much everything on line, so they all have their own bespoke email for me.

Interesting. Will have a look on the snazzy package manager and give it a go. Ta.

Sorry, not actually used any Linux office packages yet. Briefly used office365 online, which was, as you’d expect, more or less the same experience as windows / Mac.

Have had a look around and there are, apparently, as many opinions about which Linux office suit is best as there are possible usage situations or different office suits… 🥲

Just to set the record straight: I’m not trying to gaslight you. I’m sharing my newbie Linux journey, which hasn’t been as smooth as I hoped.

Linux’s centralised app management is neat, but for a Windows convert, figuring out which Linux apps to use isn’t straightforward. Deciding between numerous unfamiliar software options isn’t much different from the Windows method you described – it’s just swapping out the final step of installer downloads for package manager searches. What I’m saying is that, yes, you’re technicallycorrect. But in terms of pratical experience, the difference isn’t that significant.

The package manager is a mixed bag. Yes, it’s probably safer, but as a beginner, I’m still placing my trust in it blindly, just like I would with any Windows software site. And navigating it? It’s like a sweet shop, but one where I can’t tell one sweet from another. Maybe I don’t need to? Maybe there’s actually some huge benefit or negative of one version over the other? I don’t know, I’ll have to research it… again.

The descriptions don’t tell me either. For instance, my Linux Mint shows two versions of VLC (one with the familiar icon), and a bunch of other VLC stuff, which I’m sure is super helpful for people who need whatever they are, but it leaves me baffled.

Then there’s the terminal – Linux’s “user-friendly” feature (/s). To fix something as simple as a controller, I’m thrust into a world of cryptic commands, that, unless I want to spend weeks learning, I have to take on faith aren’t the linux equivalent of deleting system32… It’s a steep climb compared to the familiar process of downloading and installing drivers on Windows.

So, while I recognise each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, for someone fresh to Linux, it can feel like you need a Computer Science degree for what’s a walk in the park on Windows.And yes, that’s due to familiarity. Maybe even Stokholme Syndrome…

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I’m getting this impression as someone who just installed Linux mint, because people like yourself who say there won’t be problems and it will all just work. It didn’t. There were problems, and there still are.

Even on Linux I still have to search online for info and for what app to install to meet my needs. Which also relies on knowing what site to trust, and what info you find varies hugely from helpful to incomprehensible for a beginner. Especially when there’s a hundred unfamiliar options.

The whole finding downloading and installing something on windows is straightforward for most people. Search, go to site, select, install, follow instructions. Done. I’m not sure why you’re making it sound like some frought and impenetrable nightmare. There’s also the windows app store for (like the mint package manager) about 80% of stuff.

Honestly, I don’t find the package manager much different, since I still need to search for something (to identify the right software / tool etc). And hope it’s included in the package manager. Then I’m asked to approve some dependencys that I have no way, as a beginner, of evaluating of they’re safe or not. So just click ok, and just have to trust the package manager / software (Another click) is safe. No different to me that some downloaded executable on windows.

And as for the different versions, yes, I mean why are there two or three versions of Firefox when I search in the Mint package manager? What makes flatpak ine different from the other one? How can I evaluate ? As a new user, even the descriptions don’t help.

And when I say a new language, I’m talking about having to go into the terminal (?) And enter a bunch of unfamiliar commands that I have no idea if they’re the right or safe thing to do, In order to be able to get something to work. In my case a switch pro controller and an Xbox one controller (when the pro didn’t work). Both of which just work on windows. That’s just one example, and I don’t think it’s an especially unique or niche one for someone coming from windows. Got them to work on Yuzu, but wouldn’t work with a browser for some reason.

To be clear, I’m not dissing Linux (nor you!) I just don’t believe it’s easier that Windows, nor does it yet feel ready to help a new user do fairly ‘normal’ stuff they might want to. I also recently started using a Mac, and while that was laerning curve, it was still far more novice friendly than Mint. In my experience.

I’m afraid Linux is more complex for most regular people.

Yes, a lot of stuff is managed by a package manager (though you have to decide between 2-3 options of the same app, as one is flatpak and one is something else you’ve never come across before) and when that works, it’s great. But it’s far from comprehensive.

I’d rather press ‘next’ or ‘ok’ a few times than have to learn an entirely new and non-intuituve language and interface just to add an app or driver that is among the 20% of stuff that still won’t just work out the box.

In my newbie experience, the answer is: No.

There are still random snags and blocks to things you will probably expect or want to be able to do.

That being said, it’s sooooo much better than is was. If those snags are minor and not irritating for you, you’ll be able to work around them, I think.

And the wider community can be friendly and helpful, though not always empathetic / fully understanding of the lack of Linux knowledge you might be starting from, (again) in my experience.

Haven’t tried to print anything yet either…printers always seem to Bork on nearly every OS…

Edit: first installed Linux mint this week on a dell XPS laptop.

Lol, really does read in chatGPTs “voice”…

I agree, and that 80% was surprisingly pleasant and smooth experience, compared to my last stab at Linux, about 10 years ago. At least this time I didn’t git any driver issues.

But, that last 20% can be kind of a big deal if you need anything from within in…

I’d like to have the time to learn how to use Linux properly, but between a full time job (unrelated to an OS), young family, and other commitments it’s just not a priority.

I had a play out of interest, and it’s pretty good, but still not 100% usable “out of the box” for me. And how to do that remaining 20% is completely out of many Linux-naive users experience (using the terminal / command line). 20 clicks is easier, as all I’m doing is confirming yes or no on something, that I’m usually given enough information and context to be able to evaluate.

And I suspect that’s true of many many others. Which was the point of my original reply (which I’d hoped to be more humorous than insulting to people, but c’est la vie…).

To try and put it in another context:

It’s really nice to be offered a lift somewhere I need to get to, but if I get kicked out the car and have to walk the remaining 20% of the way, then next time maybe I’ll just get the bus/train/taxi. It might cost more, but at least I know I won’t have to worry if I’ll get there or not.

Also, as a new user, I didn’t know why I was seeing multiple versions of the same packages to install (flatpak etc). Googling to see which is best leads to the inevitable answer of “It depends”, which a new user might not be able to answer…

(I’m not so much speaking to you directly, and I know this is a meme post, but I’m more thinking about the handful of people in the community who seem to always reply along the lines of “people should switch to Linux, because [reason here]. And, yes, people need to learn how to x”, without demonstrating any understanding of nuance around other people’s competing priorities / skills / abilities.)

Aaaaanyway, gonna go Google “Linux 101” lessons…

Urgh. Wish this were true, but nope.

Still needs waaay more effort just to do (some) simple stuff a normal person might just expect to work.

Just installed Mint on a laptop to replace W10. Went really smoothly, and was quite impressed.

Thought I’d try a bit of emulation with Yuzu. Wanted to use a Switch pro controller. Plug and play? Nope. Tried Xbox one controller instead. Neat. Works. I can live with that.

But then thought I’d try a bit of Xbox game stream. No controller works with browser. Try obvious things to fix.

Looked for answers and they’re all like, someone going: oh, you just need to clone the controllerwaffelen driver from git, then just compile the installer using the command sudo apt get- monkeyshyte wtf -make then run the installer from the folder using cmake- getfuckednoob.

I don’t know what any of this is. Tried following instructions.

And, frankly, I cannot be fucked to spend four hours finding out / troubleshooting for something I would have thought was fairly coomon.

It’s not a deal breaker, it’s just another bit of faff and fuckaboutiness that puts me off. And, I suspect would others even less tech minded.

Exactly. It seems people often completely miss the human behaviour element of this whole issue. Just saying ‘LeARn to TEcH N00b’ isn’t helpful or realistic in the real world for most people. I have family that still won’t touch a computer, or only use one for the most basic of browsing and email, but they can use a TV remote without issue.

Also, the implication that not being tech-savvy is a form of willful ignorance is unrealistically dismissive of the different talents and intelligence people possess. Being proficient in the many and various technology’s is just one skill set among many, and people value privacy and simplicity without having to jump through hoops to achieve it. Technology should serve to enhance our lives, not add another layer of complexity. The burden should not fall solely on consumers to fend off invasive advertising; it is also the responsibility of companies to respect their users’ desire for a straightforward and unobtrusive experience. (Though I suspect we both agree this bit is more dream than reality…)

Leaving aside the silly thing about buying stuff for show (which may be true of a fraction, but not the vast majority), I disagree.

While becoming ‘tech-savvy’ might allow people to navigate around the pervasive ads in techn like the Fire Stick, it’s unrealistic to expect this level of expertise from the average person. People have a myriad of responsibilities and interests competing for their attention; not everyone has the luxury of dedicating time to become a tech expert just to avoid advertisements. This expectation completely ignores the complexity of our lives and the sheer volume of knowledge required to custom-build solutions like a media PC, or build your own media library. It’s not about being willfully ignorant; it’s about the practical realities of everyday life.

My main question, that I admittedly haven’t been arsed to look for an answer to, is; would subscribers still have the same algorithms as non-subscribers controlling what ‘content is surfaced’ to them? Since it’s been kinda optimised for engagement and advertising for sometime… If that makes sense…