Android has an easy remote backup system built in. You can save a file to any location, including cloud locations, as long as the cloud service provider plugs into the API. Signal actively disables this feature because they would rather spite users than risk even the shadow of a chance that a user upload an encrytped backup to an internet service that could theoretically then be hacked and hypothetically maybe one day decrypted.

Matrix doesn’t have this issue, it just stores encrypted messages on servers.

in other words: the default messaging protocol is imessage, unless that’s impossible, in which case it falls back to sms.

Apple’s biggest crimes here are creating a proprietary platform with an exclusive protocol and making it the default messaging protocol on their devices. None of this is really new, though. All that shit is common. We need Signal or Matrix to improve in user-friendliness and even do some marketing to the point where they become viable solutions.

So… Updates to Google messages, updates to WearOS, an update to AndroidTV, a few updates to Google proprietary apps, and one or two updates to the actual Android operating system.

there’s an “RCS Test App” in AOSP that nobody has managed to transform into a practical piece of software…

You’re trying to “correct” the correct usage of vernacular English because you feel like reinventing the language to suit your personal idea of what it should be. English is bigger than you. The phrase “private messaging” has meaning, and it’s not up to you to decide what that meaning is.

nobody thinks discord is e2ee. “private messages” usually means the same thing as “direct messages” – messages between a defined set of people as opposed to an open group. You know and understand this term, you’re just being a dick because you think that’s an effective way to convince people to stop using proprietary software without basic features like e2ee. You’re wrong.

but they weren’t offering money for platform exclusivity, they were offering money for store exclusivity on the platform

Except Google is framing the Apple App store as an alternative to the Google Play store, which… doesn’t really make sense… Especially in this context, they weren’t offering money to release fortnite on the Play store over the App store, they were offering money to release on the play store instead of as a standalone or in a competing store.

it would be weird if you didn’t.

So I did read the article. But telegram as a service allows users (some of whom are just civilians with no ties to Hamas) to warn people of imminent attack. That’s in the article. They (that channel admins) still have to add subscribers.

It’s a Hamas channel! They’re not warnings, they’re threats! And they’re recruiting! And they know those users are sharing video of their attrocities in other Hamas groups! And the al-Qassam Brigades have a public channel too!

The thing is though, for telegram and messaging apps like it this is basically playing whack a mole. I know I said that before, but what I meant by it is that it’s better for the purposes of building intelligence and or sending their geolocation data to relevant authorities. If they close one channel more will pop up. IP bans and even device bans will not stop this from happening. You can create a telegram bot in like 10 minutes.

The mole is out in the open, sticking its fingers in its ears, and laughing at us, and Durov is saying “yeah, that’s a fine mole, no idea why I’d whack it.” It’s gaining steam! They’re openly using the names of terrorist organizations and recruiting new members constantly and telegram isn’t even considering a response.

But deleting certain channels will detrimentally affect the civilians caught in the cross fire.

No, it absolutely will not.

"Telegram CEO Pavel Durov wrote that he was hesitant to shut down Hamas-used channels in a post on October 13th, saying that “tackling war-related coverage is seldom obvious” and writing that Hamas had used Telegram a few days prior to warn civilians to evacuate an area before the attacked it " < from your article.

He referenced Ashkelon. There are zero Israelis in Ashkelon following Hamas on Telegram. Israel knows when to evacuate its citizens, and unlike Hamas, actually does so when necessary. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas is threatening Israeli civilians before targeting those civilians. THE THREAT IS THE FIRST CAUSE OF THE TERROR. This is what terrorism is! They threaten violence on civilians, they do the violence they threatened, and then they celebrate it by sharing videos! They threaten, plan, and celebrate on telegram, out in the open!

It’s the same thing with scammers. Most telegram scammers are using private messages that have encryption. So you absolutely are suggesting the telegram snoop through private messages.

There’s a funnel. They start on twitter, just kind of innocently saying “follow me on Telegram.” Then they say “alright, this broadcast channel will tell you exactly what token to buy, and when! Do exactly that!” It’s a pump and dump scheme, some people fall for it. And then the real rubes get into those 1-on-1 secret chats with the scammers where they go ahead and give out their private info.

A tech company like Telegram could, in theory follow this funnel through the unencrypted channels. It’s obvious enough from the information you and I have.

These channels are all operating openly. You know they’re all pump and dump scams, right? They’re not in secret chats, they’re huge channels with hundreds of thousands of subscribers.

So can we stop pretending that this is simply an easy fix?

Can we stop pretending that ignoring the problem is a better solution?

not in a million years. Not with FDIC insurance or open-source non-custodial crypto wallets or anything like that.

That sucks. I think it’s worse when they’re doing it to capitalize off violence, especially when they’re taking money that dumb people assume might go towards some cause.

… they did?

you can’t?

Lol, yeah, this sociopath is going to develop a full suite of banking services and software in a year while laying off employees, sure.

Did you read the article? Do you know what broadcast channels are?

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/25/23931710/telegram-android-block-hamas-channels-google-play-guidelines-war-israel

You can make a private group on Facebook where you can exchange messages without anyone who lacks system access being able to view them. That’s how CP rings hide what they’re doing. And Facebook allows it until someone reports it or the cops subpoena that data.

My point here was that people would be stupid to expect that their information is private from facebook.

I also have to imagine that you’re wrong, I’m sure they have proactive means to scan for CP and ban it whenever they become aware of it, and just don’t have the means to always ban CP groups immediately. Like, knowing your company controls child porn and allowing it to remain in control is a great way to end up in prison, most corporate douchebags prefer to avoid prison if they can. Like, Zuckerberg does not want to go to jail just so he can get a few more ad bucks from pedos.

I feel very weird defending Facebook, they’re quite evil, but your conspiracy theory is silly.

So what was it you wanted them (Facebook, or WhatsApp, or signal or telegram) to do?

You seem like you’re focused on private groups, which I think are still problematic on Telegram as they are on Facebook, but you’re really neglecting the issue of the fully public broadcast groups Hamas is known for, and known for engaging in terrorist activity on, including the al-Qassam Brigades! Why can’t Telegram ban the fucking public channel for the al-Qassam Brigades? Doesn’t that just make the issue so obvious?

Delete the accounts or known terrorists whether they are or aren’t using the platform for terrorist activities?

That would be good, but also, if you know somebody is a terrorist, isn’t that at least enough cause to look through their non-encrypted chats to see if they really are or are not using the platform for terrorist activities?

You appear to very much be advocating for people’s private messages to be scanned and possibly read by a human being if they trip the algorithm. So yes. You are advocating for an invasion of privacy.

Meh. If your public messages and stories and large group messages (which are really not private in any meaningful sense) trip an algorithm with high confidence, then scanning your unencrypted kinda-private-ish messages after that doesn’t seem like a big problem, and human review after a high-confidence trip there doesn’t seem too bad either.

First off, let me just say that I am not quite sure how telegram works. So far I know it’s just a far saver WhatsApp that guarantees that your info isn’t being sold.

None of that is true. Telegram is Open Source, but is not safer than WhatsApp in any way. Telegram messages are not e2ee by default, and group chats can not be e2ee, unlike Whatsapp which encrypts all messages end-to-end, always.

There’s no real safeguard in place to prevent telegram from selling your data. It probably isn’t doing it for now, it claims that it doesn’t sell your data, but so does facebook. Their privacy policies aren’t that different. Telegram does have your data, it could sell your data, it just doesn’t. Note that telegram is not a nonprofit.

Second, most of my issues with your ideas of censoring content is meant in a more general sense.

I’m not calling for “more general” censorship, I’ve been quite specific.

You mean apart from the fact they can just hop over to some other platform?

How is that not an inconvenience? Moving your entire. organization, finding a platform that won’t ban you, finding a platform that will host unlimited beheading videos at high resolution, finding a platform with the same broadcast feature so they can spread propaganda to hundreds of millions of people, finding that all for free… What part of that is just as convenient as continuing to do what they’re doing?

Also I am not quite sure how you imagine telegram to actually do something against terrorists while also guaranteeing the privacy aspect of the service they are providing.

Telegram is literally already aware of which accounts belong to Hamas, Pavel Durov has publicly commented on why he doesn’t feel like Hamas is a problem, this is not a question of discovering terrorism on the platform, this is a question of figuring out what to do about it.

That’s literally their whole thing, privacy.

Privacy is aggressively not a thing Telegram is about. You seem to have fallen for some of their weird marketing. The only things about Telegram that might preserve your privacy are the option to sign up anonymously (a lot of messaging apps have this, and it’s not necessarily a good thing), and the fact that it isn’t owned by facebook (most messaging apps aren’t).

This is especially true of broadcast channels, which any schmuck can view without installing the app or having an account at all.

I am not even going to bother with all these other straw man fallacies. If you can’t have a civil discussion without putting words in my mouth and twisting the meaning of them we are done here.

But that’s what I’m talking about. I said Telegram shouldn’t provide terrorists with a means to share videos of beheadings, and you have a problem with the freedom-related implications of that, I’m really not sure what your point was.

You are suggesting they essentially listen in on every conversation or message sent on the service

I’m not suggesting that!

They don’t need to listen to private chats to see what Hamas is doing, it’s open, it’s public, they’re not being subtle, and Pavel Durov himself has publicly commented on it. He just doesn’t give a fuck.