Palestinians can do no wrong at this point.

You may want to read up some about how LGBTQ people are treated in Gaza before you come out with gems like that, amigo…

Don’t choose to be brainwashed. Both Israel and Palestine have done horrible and atrocious shit throughout this >80 year conflict. There is zero excuse for the blatant disregard of innocent civilian lives that we have seen on both side over the last 14 months alone. This is not a blank-and-white, good-vs-bad, situation.

Ooh, the ad homenim into family guy meme baseless “you’re racist” strawman argument.

Now you’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel of stupid shit to say, aren’t you?

You’re the one bringing race into this and I can only hazard a guess why…

As far as I know, no one has been convicted before a court for the October 7th attacks. We shouldn’t talk about the massacres then, right?

Nice one “bro”, but there are hundreds of hours of high-resolution video footage of October 7th, much of which was recorded and published by Hamas militants themselves. Innocent people being fucking shot and killed, their homes and communes ransacked, men, women and children taken captive (about 100 of which are still unaccounted for today).

Is this your idea of good argument? Denial of a objectively horrible and well-documented massacre of people in broad daylight?

If so, that pretty disgusting. You dropped this 🤡

IF the evidence behind October 7th was “I dunno maybe it happened because someone says that they saw someone who looked like Hamas do something near something else but maybe not”, then I would also have a very difficult time accepting that as fact. I would want to some actual evidence of that, wouldn’t you?

Someone like you, who is more biased and hateful, would gladly accept something so inconclusive as a fact to justify their feelings of blind anger and tribal vengeance.

This holy war will go on for another 80 years because of people like you who are willing to believe anything that makes them feel better about whichever side of this pointless bullshit that they happen to subscribe to.

I’m not going to help you learn to read, man. I’m sorry. No offense.

I’m a secular atheist democratic libertarian socialist. Very little of that factors into my view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Face it. You guys are just being pissy because I asked for the receipts, and it turns out you don’t have them.

• If caring about what is true or not makes me a “zionist” (it doesn’t, fyi), then I guess I am.
• If advocating for the release of the remaining Israeli hostages from Gaza makes me a “zionist” (it doesn’t, fyi), then I guess I am.
• If wanting a peaceful, cooperative two-state solution where both Palestine and Israel are run in a secular democratic manner makes me a “zionist” (it doesn’t, fyi), then I guess I am.

Frankly, at this point I’m starting to think that many of you guys don’t even know what a fucking “zionist” is. It’s just become a mantra and a meme to some of you guys.

Imagine being this fragile and butthurt when someone asks if there is evidence behind a claim…

Believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to join the holy war and believe in the Torah or the prophet Muhammad then that’s your own [bad] choice. As for me, I’m still going to choose to believe in objective facts.

I like how quick you are to shift the goalposts from “there’s no evidence. None at all” to “oh that evidence you provided?

Go ahead and explain to me about how a UN memo saying that something “may be” happening is “evidence” of anything?

Is it happening or is it not happening? If this was something that there was undeniable evidence of, do you think the report would say that it “may be” happening or that it “is” happening?

That’s not moving the goalposts, that’s just basic reading comprehension–something you clearly lack.

Keep cheering for genocide if that’s what you want to do, there’s no need to pretend this is about anything else.

Ah, here it is, the strawman we’ve all been waiting for!

I’m against any Israeli desire for genocide against the Palestinian people, just like I am against any Palestinian desire to genocide the Israeli people. I have always and will always believe in a peaceful two-state solution in which Israel and Palestine learn to cooperate, respect defined boundaries, enshrine equal rights for minorities, and run their nations in a democratic and secular fashion instead of a theocratic authoritarian one.

I mean… I get it, dude. It’s cool.

I don’t have a side in this holy war that has been going on since long before I was born. In fact, both the Israelis and the Palestinians have proven themselves to be barbaric shitheads who are more than happy to violate the norms of war and target innocent civilians in the name of their personal brand of violent genocide.

Like many other people on this website, you simply don’t like it when people challenge your oh-so-nuanced “Israeli Jew bad, Palestinian Muslim good” viewpoint by asking for even the most basic thread of evidence to back up your provocative story, and so you get frustrated when the best evidence that you have is that some Palestinian witness claims to have seen an IDF soldier in the general vicinity of the thing happening.

That’s fine, I guess. I’m still going to ask to see the receipts when people make outlandish claims.

This is not a court proceeding, so saying “hearsay is not evidence” is pointless.

You’re right. In fact the stakes are much higher than a court proceeding, as is the need to be accurate and certain about allegations.

Witness testimony before a court would be evidence.

It would be, if the witness was someone deemed to be credible and if what they saw was consistent with other confirmed facts.

You should be glad that we happen to live in a world where “I saw them do it!” alone isn’t enough to convict someone of a serious crime.

The details will have to be proven in court, when they eventually get their Nuremberg.

Good! And if/when that time comes, and the details are proven beyond a reasonable doubt with hard evidence, then it can be said to be a fact. What a concept, eh?

As of now, what you are describing is little more than a conspiracy theory akin to “stop the steal”, flat earth, birtherism, and so on. All this conversation has shown is that the Lemmy groupthink is just as prone to believing conspiracy theories and propaganda that conforms to their biases as some of the wack-jobs on the far right.

If the story was flipped and we were accusing Palestinians of burning down an Israeli school I’d be making all the same points. You know why? Because If your standards for truth and objectivity morph and change depending on which side of the holy war you’re talking about, then you don’t really give a damn about the truth at all, do you?

Hey look! Performative European bureaucratic theater that will amount to nothing. I think this is what people call “virtue signalling”, no?

More than a year into this shit show chapter of an 80 year conflict, war criminals, authoritarians and genocidal maniacs on both sides, no mechanism to compel arrest or enforce anything, and the Hamas officials that were named are potentially already dead. I can’t believe that people don’t know empty political gestures tossing red meat when they see it… 🙄

Netanyahu should be a man and go face the ICC himself in response to this warrant. After all, if the facts show that he has acted within the various laws and conventions of war, then he has nothing to fear. He obviously won’t however, nor will anyone bother to arrest him in the US or EU.

“Bound by contract”, lol…

Are you familiar with Donald Trump?

Make no mistake, this war is the culmination of multiple decades of extremist Israeli and Palestinian politics in which the worst possible human beings on both sides were propped up by a populace that has been blinded by decades of hate for the other.

This is what Netanyahu and Hamas have always wanted, and what they were always working towards.

America will never cut off the supply of weapons to Israel, as they are not only our most important ally in the Middle East, but also a key symbolic homeland for millions of Jewish Americans that happens to be under constant threat of attack and annihilation from multiple regional neighbors, including Iran.

People won’t like to hear this, but Bernie Sanders could have been president in 2023 and he still would have sold weapons to Israel in the wake of the October 7th massacre.

The best you can realistically hope for is weapons sent under preconditions.

Idiots believe “media”, intelligent people believe concrete evidence, of which there is none to back up the original claim.

Genuine question: do you repeat the same copy-pasted propaganda so much that you can’t remember having this exact same psedo-historical conversation a few days ago?

You may have infinite energy to repeat the same thing over and over again, but I’m not going to bother with it. Refer to my last correction of the historical record.

Scenario 3, hostages freed as part of ceasefire deal: fighting stops, hostages freed.

You wouldn’t think it was acceptable that “the hostages remain hostages” if they were people you cared about. Do you not see the fucking difference?

The scenario that will ultimately win is Scenario 1, the hostages will not be released and the war will continue. It’ll only get worse when Trump gets into office, so sit back and enjoy existing in the calm before the storm.

Now who’s putting words in other people’s mouths? 😂

If you had a leg to stand on in this discussion you wouldn’t resort to pathetic non sequitur.

Hamas was [supposedly] the legitimately elected government of the Gaza Strip. To think that they could go on a murderous rampage (in which they killed more people in a single day than the Israelis have in any day since then, by the way), take hostages back into Gaza, hide behind innocent women and children like the worthless pathetic Islamist terrorist cowards that they are, and not face the direct consequences of their actions, is a joke.

I guess when you worship a pedophile who spread his ideology through violent genocide (including in historical Gaza), logic and consequence isn’t your strong point.

Still, I don’t understand why you are so dramatically opposed to the idea of releasing the hostages? What’s in it for you that these people are needlessly tortured? Do you think it helps offset the harm against the innocent Gazans?

You keep posting these propaganda images every day, is it your job or just a hobby?

At any rate, all your image shows is that there was never a Palestinian nation state to begin with. So again, the question remains “what makes it Palestinian land in the first place?”

By your own admission, this region (home to both the original Israelites, Judea, Hebrews, Philistines, and dozens of other nomadic tribes) has been passed around by empire to empire for thousands of years.

It’s cynical and frankly fucking disgusting that you view human lives as nothing more than numbers.

Is this just numbers to you? Is that how you quantify the value of human life?

If so, you are beyond help and reasoning.

Nothing can be done for the thousands of people on both sides of this conflict who have been tragically killed in a pointless war, but that does no mean that the people who can be saved right now, today, shouldn’t be. I want the immediate release of the hostages, because 1 innocent person taken hostage and tortured for months in an injustice to people everywhere. I want a ceasefire because 1 innocent person killed in a pointless holy war is an injustice to people everywhere.

The real question, and the one to which I can only guess your disgusting answer, is why you don’t…

Return the bodies then.

Frankly I hope that they are dead, because the idea of living in a dungeon under Gaza being raped and tortured every day for 13 months is horrific.

And if Hamas has lost track of even the hostages bodies then I don’t envy them, because it seems that they’ve lost what little bargaining position they once had. Uh oh for them.

Well in that case I guess you’ll be glad to know that a one-state solution seems to be on the horizon–where Israel is the one state that controls the region.

Not my preference, but I don’t make the rules.

What makes it their land in the first place, some British mandate written by the same people who created the state of Israel?

100 years ago the entire area was part of the Ottoman Empire, both nations of Israel and Palestine are fabrications.

If you could argue against what I said you wouldn’t resort to putting words in my mouth, mate.

And if you could read you would know that both Israelies and Palestinians are the “local population” with somewhat dubious historic claims over the land spanning back >3000 years.

Need I remind you that it was the British that drew the maps that have lead us to where we are today?