The new fairphone 5 came out, it looks cool but the price is really, really high…
If it’s a phone that can really last 10 years it could be good, but is that true? Is it worth it? I could get the one with /e/os from Murena because i want a degoogled phone with a bootloader locked, but is it usable on a daily basis?
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Actually, when you buy a Fairphone directly from them, they offer you to send them your old phone to be refurbished and reused, I believe in 3rd world countries.
Edit: Here’s the direct link: https://shop.fairphone.com/recycle
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It’s interesting that they include phone brands like MobiWire and Blackberry, but not Google.
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I’ve had a Fairphone 4 for just under a year running CalyxOS, and I am very happy with it. Not sure when / if CalyxOS will be available for FP5, but unless they have locked down anything, I don’t see why that shouldn’t happen. If I understand your post correctly, it is already available with e/OS/?
Maybe the specs are underwhelming, but with the FP4, it does not affect me the slightest based on my use case. Phones are more than good enough already. I do not play any games on my phone. Camera could be better - maybe it is on FP5? Is it the perfect phone? Nope, but at the moment, I think our choices are too limited if you want privacy and repairability. Supporting a company that pushes these kinds of phone is also a reason I went with this phone.
Swapable batteries are nice - I’ve not made use of it yet, but I am planning on getting one or two spare batteries for travel to keep in a printed case. In the EU, this will be mandatory in the future, but first form 2027. Other than that, I am happy with the ability to buy spare parts if something breaks. I can’t see myself ever buying something that is deliberately unrepairable again when there is no reason it should be. I don’t mind the lack of 3.5mm-port, which I know irritates a lot of people. If you swear to this, I can understand that this is disappointing. There exists an adapter, but my experience with these kind of adapters is that they quickly wear out. That was my experience with the iPhone and Apple’s own adapters at least. I burned through four in 1-2 years.
Running a Fairphone 4 with IodéOS (another de-Googled privacy focused Android) for close to two years now and I agree that it’s a capable phone which doesn’t limit myself in any way.
As you mentioned the biggest downside is the camera, which apparently has something to do with the firmware.
Edit: regarding the headphone situation: I’m using Austrian Audio (=former AKG engineering team) Hi-X25BT headphones, which are noticeably better than pods or cheap headphones and have been running well over a year now. They come with both (mini-)jack to USB-C and USB-C to USB-C cables, but I haven’t tried the latter yet.
No.
No headphone jack, no buy. It’s not a question of whether a headphone jack is useful to you, it’s just the principle of it - there’s no good reason to remove it (especially for the asking price of FP5), and more importantly, it goes against what the Fairphone stands for, IMO. I can understand if it were some other profit-driven company making a shrewd business decision, but for Fairphone to do it, seems very unfair to me.
There is a good reason to remove it. Especially for a company like fairphone. Why waste resources and money into making a redundant component (USB-C can do audio, also the majority of people have switched to wireless audio) when you’re trying to make a planet-conscious product?
There is no good faith argument that can be made for the removal of the headphone jack. Companies removed it to sell overpriced wireless headphones.
They said it was due to size, but new phones are quite chunky these days so that’s not true. Waterproofing? Can be done, many phones have waterproofing and a headphone jack.
Costs? Come on it’s a very simple, very old, plastic bit.
And sustainability? “planet-conscious”? You must be kidding. It’s way better to use regular headphones than the wireless pieces of crap with batteries and an amplifier and a bluetooth receiver in them.Well good luck then. Because enough of us have absolutely no problem with using the usbc or Bluetooth. I rarely even listen to music anymore anyway so it’s not something I use.
Companies removed it to sell overpriced wireless headphones.
Of course, I’m not denying this. That still doesn’t negate my point about audio jacks being redundant ports.
It’s way better to use regular headphones than the wireless pieces of crap with batteries and an amplifier and a bluetooth receiver in them.
Yes, and those regular headphones CAN be plugged into phones without headphone jack via the USB-C port
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think phones without a headphone jack should have a second USB C port instead.
I can get behind this
I miss the simplicity of plugging in something that worked reliably well 100% of the time tho
majority of people have switched to wireless audio
Citation needed. Also, just because people have “switched” to wireless doesn’t mean that they don’t have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste. Also, I suspect a significant portion of Fairphone users are the kind who’d still hold on to wired headphones.
when you’re trying to make a planet-conscious product?
The first rule in making a planet-conscious product is the RRR - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. If people already have wired headphones, then the most eco-friendly solution would be to enable users to continue to use them, and not force them to buy even more new products. And as a manufacturer, there’s practically no shortage of 3.5mm jacks around (plenty of old devices where the parts can be recycled from), and there’s almost no complexity involved in wiring up or making circuitry for something that’s been a standard for several decades.
Also, just because people have “switched” to wireless doesn’t mean that they don’t have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste.
Another use-case for the headphone jack: I use it to connect my phone to various audio devices, e. g. E-drums for practising playback or the practice room PA tolisten to demos. Nearly all professional equipment uses wired connections.
Not to mention that unlike the wireless buds, headphones I used ten years ago and sat on a shelf that whole time will all still work 100% of the time. Show me wireless battery powered crap that can claim that
Citation needed.
I don’t have a source ready with me to back up my statement. But at least here in India, almost everyone I see in public transportation use wireless earbuds. Usually I look like the odd one out for wearing wired earphones.
If people already have wired headphones, then the most eco-friendly solution would be to enable users to continue to use them, and not force them to buy even more new products.
You absolutely don’t need to go out and buy a new headphones if your phone doesn’t have an audio jack. Just buy a dongle. Yes, I’m aware that this is worse for the planet than just including an audio jack in the phone. But if you buy a dongle once, you don’t have to worry about your future phones not having a headphone jack. So in the long run, this move is better for the planet.
How is buying a dongle you shouldn’t need better for the planet than a phone manufacturer providing a headphone jack??? The phone already has a DAC in it, they literally only need to include the actual port
almost everyone I see in public transportation use wireless earbuds. Usually I look like the odd one out for wearing wired earphones.
your sample is incredibly biased, you’re taking 1 demographic and assuming everyone acts like that. Go into a recording studio and see how many wireless headphones they use, Go to a concert and see how they are driving their speakers. Just because a lot of consumers use wireless earphones in an environment that doesn’t lend itself to good audio (like public transport), doesn’t mean most people are using it.
How is buying a dongle you shouldn’t need better for the planet than a phone manufacturer providing a headphone jack??
Did you even read my reply fully?
Go into a recording studio and see how many wireless headphones they use
Recording studios also don’t use a smartphone to do their work.
Even if we do assume that the majority of the world still uses wired earphones, it still makes sense to remove the audio jack for reasons I have explained already.
You haven’t provided a single good reason. Why are you fighting this so hard? Samsung isn’t gonna kiss you.
Ah yes, it is totally unfair to expect consumers who prefer wired audio to make a one time purchase of a 10$ dongle. Instead phone manufacturers should continue to ship every single phone with an audio jack for years to come. And anybody who says it is fine to remove the audio jack because those who prefer wired audio can use a dongle is obviously a samsung shill.
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I find it hilarious since we both are from India, and an incredible amount of people utilise the 3.5 mm jack for their $10 earphones. You do not even understand or care for the demographic choice, and are encouraging people buy wireless TWS they need to replace every 2 years, when they can get by with wired earphones half the price. Within a span of 10 years, people would buy $20 of wired earphones versus $500 of wireless ones. This does not even include the possibility of many people losing one of the two wireless earbuds, causing another purchase.
it’s not a redundant component at all. USB-C doesn’t carry analogue audio. You need an external DAC to convert that digital signal to analogue to make it usable. You can’t plug your headphones into a USB-C port.
Basically you need to buy a 10$ dongle to make it work. How hard is that?
It’s not hard. It’s wasteful and unnecessary. It means you can’t charge your phone and listen to music at the same time. There are no advantages to removing the headphone jack
My FP4 lasts two days on one charge, and charges fully in about 30 minutes. In most cases it shouldn’t be an issue finding a 15-30 minute interval within two days where you don’t listen to music in order to charge. Not all arguments against the removal are equally good, in my opinion.
However, I agree that dongles are wasteful. I burned through many such 3.5mm to Lightning on my previous iPhone. They had the durability of a snowman in Summer, and also cost about 10 bucks each for the official one. Since Fairphone claims sustainability as the main reason to remove the port, I’d love to see an actual calculation on the impact of broken ports vs broken dongles. I think the dongles will lose.
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Regarding the “no good reason to remove it,” my understanding was that Samsung opted to remove it to increase the water resistance rating. Unfortunately the fairphone 4 only has an IP54 rating, so that’s certainly not the case here.
Apparently they address the headphones jack question in an article on fairphone’s support page.
Not arguing with you btw, but the excuses they’ve provided are all BS. For starters, IP rating isn’t really an issue - the Pixel 5a, Galaxy A52, Xperia 5 V, Zenfone 10 - all have a headphone jack, and a minimum of IP65, even going up to IP68 (Pixel 5a), so that really can’t be an excuse. Also, cost can’t be an excuse either, considering the examples I’ve provided consists of both budget and premium phones.
The only answer that makes sense here is GREED. Nothing but plain and good ol capitalism at work.
I think Air Pods netted Apple more money than Spotify’s annual revenue or some shit.
Which is why Samsung gave up after making fun of Apple.
For some time, air pods would have been a top 20 company on their own or something like that.
Solid agree.
The Galaxy S5 from ~7 years ago was submersible, had a headphone jack, and was pretty damn slim.
Any points made by manufacturers now for 3.5mm removal IMO are just excuses in my eyes. A supply chain issue is the only reason I’ll (selfishly) accept.
S5 also had a removable back cover and battery.
i took a chance with the FP4 and bought it even though it has no 3,5mm jack. i absolutely hate it. if there’s no headphone jack on the next model, i will have to switch to nokia or shiftphone.
“This phone has a port I’m not going to use & I’m angry out of morals”
I’m still on a CRT because most new TV don’t have AVI for some reason, I convert AVI to HDMI on my CRT but its about the morals.
Those legacy connectors (AV, SCART, S-Video, RF Modulators etc.) have had a superior replacement with no compromises though, HDMI.
The 3.5mm jack hasn’t really had a viable replacement IMO, and to be honest I don’t think it needs one. Personally I use bluetooth headphones when I’m out, usually switching it off in shopping environments (see #1 below) but indoors everything is 3.5mm.
My main problems with the omission of the 3.5mm jack are…
- privacy: Beacon trackers can follow you through a store by monitoring the bluetooth packets between your phone and headphones
- Limited spectrum space: if you’ve been on public transport where everyone is wearing BT headphones, the signal is terrible. Newer versions of BT are much better at frequency hopping compared to the old ones, but it’s still not a great listening experience
- interference: retrofitting/replacing a perfectly good sound system just to add Bluetooth capabilities isn’t realistic for everyone. Most of the retrofit BT recievers add unnecessary interference to a sound setup, and this gets worse if you need a longer cable to put the aftermarket reciever somewhere to get a better BT signal for your phone
- dongles: they’re a solution, however IMO it’s a bit of a janky one that puts unnecessary strain on your charging port when you’re out and about. They also may consume more battery life (external ADC via USB, if your device/headphones/dongle does not support amplifying audio directly over the C port) and even more jank when the headphone cable is weighing down the dongle. In something like a car, or maybe home too, these dongles are OK, but they’re a non starter for people who like to go out and about.
My biggest issue though is the planned obselecence stuff. The tiny li-ion batteries in the buds being pushed by manufacturers as a “3.5mm replacement” are likely going to get their recharge cycles rinsed out with frequent usage, leading the consumer to buy new buds every 2 years, just like with phones. It’s really disappointing.
if only USB C headphones existed, also 3.5mm jacks aren’t prefect and tend to snap and get warn out quite quickly.
But like your comment is completely beside the point, your allowed to want a headphone jack and u can freely dictate your purchasing habits due to that. But it isn’t anything to do with Morals
True, worn out 3.5mm jacks are very annoying.
I’m in no way trying to imply they’re perfect - IMO there’s always room for improvement. I just don’t think a low tolerance 10 gigabit, 100W capable connector is the right choice to replace a port that gets a lot of abuse.
I did get a bit carried away in my response though tbh, I did not notice you were focused on the morals part - I agree a connector jack is not a moral issue
I just double checked OP’s post (now edited) and couldn’t see anything related to morals though, unless they’ve removed it?
yea original comment included something along the lines of “im not going to buy it even if i don’t need a 3.5mm jack, just out of morals”
On the GrapheneOS side, a used Pixel 5a js the last good phone… both size and a headphone jack. Sucks a lot.
Too bad the ultrawide on it is trash, and the battery is subpar. And it is outdated.
I like a headphone jack and definitely prefer to have one but even to me that’s a really fucking stupid comment!
Often a phone with no heasphone jack will offer a higher degree of waterproofing performance. Not the case with the Fairphone, I’m guessing because it’s modular. But doesn’t that mean I can add a headphone jack?
Personally, I don’t want a huge hole in my phone and case that I’m never going to take advantage of. Wireless headphones with noise cancelling and such are far more convenient when outside than the open backs I use at my computer. The DAC in most desktops suck so I use a USB-C to 3.5mm anyways, makes it really easy to plug into my phone if I ever needed.
Just my opinion for my situation, but I would honestly rather buy the same phone without a headphone jack than one that did.
If you’re not a power user, then it’ll probably work fine for several years. And it will be cheap and easy to replace the battery in 3-5 years when it starts to degrade, or replace the screen if you drop it. Not sure if a full 10 year lifespan is realistic, though.
And you’re right, the price is high, but it’s not supposed to be an affordable phone. The stated goal of the Fairphone is to be better for the environment and better for people than most other electronics. So, they have to do things like use sustainable materials and source parts from places that treat their workers well. All of that means that Fairphones will NEVER be as cheap as other brands. Because doing things right costs more.
We’ll probably never be allowed Fairphone in USA, which I’ve been eying since before launch. Curiosity got the better of me anyway; it’s still cheaper than iPhone https://eu.mobgsm.com/mobile/apple-iphone-14-pro-max-price-in-europe
Wasn’t the FP4 launched in the US recently?
I had to search, and so it was! https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/5/23783714/murena-fairphone-4-us-release-date-price-sustainability-repair
It’s still currently not budgetable, but it’s closer! Thanks for great news!
Why did you think it wouldn’t be allowed in USA?
Honestly? Because politicians and citizens alike would use it as a rallying cry, label it “European soshulist garbage.” Ffs, they even aoc and Bernie claim they’re socialists. They aren’t.
Do you not count the Murena partnership? I’ve been considering a Fairphone since I saw this.
I don’t know enough about Murena to speculate, let alone comment
The price feels really high, you’re right. For me, it makes me think of why the rest is the phones are not more expensive. If FP5 costs this much with such underwhelming specs, but with a truly fair supply chain, then all other players must be cutting a lot of corners. I will must likely be getting a FP5 because of the statement. Just hope the camera is good enough that I can live with it for 10 years…
Ingl, I don’t see the difference between phone cameras anymore. I mean, I do when I look very closely, but if I want a really proper photo, I use a standalone camera. (Or ask people who own lenses twice as expensive as my phone on their own.)
I suspect the question isn’t just how sharp or high res or low distortion or whatever your pictures are, but how fast will the camera open and take a picture and how many of those pictures are good enough given the range of lighting and distance people want quick pics of.
If you miss a lot of shots because the camera is too slow or crashes or the files are blurry, text unreadable, out of focus, badly exposed… failures of any kind, then the camera is not usable. That’s still not uncommon in phones.
Lots of people are starting to figure out how useful being able to take a picture at a moment’s notice is.
then all other players must be cutting a lot of corners
I mean, I’m pretty sure other phone companies use child labor to harvest the raw materials necessary to produce their devices, so yeah, they are screwing over tons of people.
I use the FP3. It’s an old device but I find it very responsive, and keeps up with what I need it to do personally. I like it, but don’t like Android. I wish the device had more RAM though.
The FP5 looks promising (and big 😳) the only turn offs for me are no 3.5mm headphone jack, and the price could do with another 150-200 off at least. Since FP is a niche company with some special supply chain arrangements, I think this price is the best we’ll get for now (unless you trade in an old device for recycling for money off), but it’s still expensive.
If you value the ability to own and repair your device, the knowledge that people further down in the supply chain get paid a little extra when they’re collecting materials for Fairphone, and that your device will very, very likely get supported for the full time they claim (and even longer in the case of the FP2), then it’s probably worth it.
Otherwise, a new/recent Pixel (eligible to recieve GrapheneOS updates) is another very good option.
Regardless of what device you choose, if you want to keep your next phone for 10 years, you’ll want a lot of onboard storage - but keep as much things as possible on an SD card. This is to avoid burning out your onboard NAND, since it has a finite lifespan and not replaceable.
Pixels don’t support SD cards AFAIK, so if you go for one of them I’d recommend going for the highest builtin storage that you can afford (especially if it’s a used one)
Another FP3 user here.
I wish the device had more RAM though.
I use lineageos with zram on mine. It works wonders
Interesting, Fedora Linux uses zram too, is this a general thing on Android?
What is zram? It it a baked in feature of Lineage or is it an add on? I’ve got MicroG LOS on my FP3 and it runs well enough.
Zram basically compresses the ram. Afaik it’s enabled by default in LOS.
no 3.5mm headphone jack
Whaaaat? Why?
I’m not terribly familiar with the Fairphones, but are you able to upgrade the ram yourself? I feel like that should be a key part of the modularity concept.
Modern system on chip type processors and their RAM and even ROM are pretty rightly coupled. Modem also. Upgrade would essentially be a full board swap.
Which would be a neat feature, but probably hard to make happen.
Hopefully I’m not too late to say this: I would strongly caution against buying a Fairphone. My mum got a new Fairphone 3 in early 2021. Earlier this year, just after the phone went out of warranty, the USB-C port stopped working. The replacement bottom module was out of stock, it’s been out of stock for months, and the forums are full of people complaining that it’s been mostly out of stock since 2021. Fairphone claimed that they would have stock back by the end of August, and as of today, that is not true. This phone was supposed to have spare parts available through to 2025.
does the fact that they promise 8 years support now change your mind at all?
Did you read the comment you replied to? Fairphone may be well-intentioned but their promises don’t mean much when they can’t even fully support the phones they have out now
From a privacy perspective: no
From a fairness and repairability perspective: yes
Why is it bad from a privacy perspective?
It’s not bad, it’s just that it’s an Android phone like any other. It doesn’t claim to be more “private”. It would be approximately the same amount of work to degoogle as any other Android phone.
Probably easier if they dont actively try to prevent you from unlocking & rooting
Though that does not equal to interest by the devs who create ROMs and other such content.
Maybe less of a concern since Treble but a concern nonetheless.
Every Fairphone to date (perhaps not the original) has had support for custom operating systems, on behalf of both the Fairphone developers and community developers at large. The Fairphone 4 is one of the most widely supported modern devices and there is no reason to think this will suddenly change with the 5.
Fairphone always had a lot of interest from the open source community, I don’t see why that would change…
They literally launched a /e/OS version the same day…
The default Fairphone OS has Google and a bunch of other trackers.
For a good privacy friendly Fairphone, you should get the Murena Fairphone (they preinstalled DeGoogled /e/OS)
So not really worse than any other Android phones
No worse, and with the benefits of a re-lockable bootloader and widespread custom OS support.
I bought the FP3, then upgraded it to an FP3+ when the camera broke. Never had as much fun with a phone before or since. It has been my daily driver for years and it did everything well enough, if a bit slow. My friends either get new phones or use them despite visible damage because they can’t fix them. Now I ordered the FP5 to have the 3+ as a backup and test setup and I am confident I will use the FP5 for 3-6 years again :)
Fairphones are like an odd car: There are sleeker, faster, cheaper and maybe just better alternatives around. However you still like it and just learn where to hit it with a hammer when it starts making funny noises. If you can afford it and like odd devices, it’s for you.
Don’t hit your phone with a hammer please . 🤓
You can’t tell me what to do!!!
…but it kinda makes sense, so I won’t hit it with a hammer 😐
Depends on what you’re using the phone for. Personally, my usage isn’t very demanding, so having a phone that’s going to have security updates and a replaceable battery will probably let me use the phone for 5+ years.
I probably won’t keep the phone for 10 years, but it means I can upgrade on my schedule, not just because some company decided for me.
I can hear consumers now, “ But I want muh planned obsolescence!”
check your most used apps here to see if they work with mircoG: plexus.techlore.tech
I’ve been using degoogled phones for years and I bareley have any issues. only issues are snapchat and google maps give warnings, but work. other google apps work fine.
It used to be you had to regularly do some convoluted workaround to get things working with microG, but that hasn’t been an issue for me for years now.
yeah the fp5 is expensive, but hardware wise it’s the first one I could actually see myself using as a daily driver. Considering that I’d probably use it for 3 years at least, the price isn’t that bad either. However, I’d love to have a folding phone instead, but I’m pretty sure it’ll take a few years until good degoogled roms are available for those. so yeah fp5 seems like a good transistionary device.
Since we are in a privacy subreddit, I will say that Fairphone is second only to the Google Pixel in terms of support for privacy focused versions of Android. For privacy specifically, they are a great choice.
Ahem, did you mean community?
Sorry…force of habit…
Soyuz…
Subreddit? You high man? Do you need some water? Have you eaten well?
But the price is just too much, jesus. I can’t spend 600 euros on a phone
Just buy a secondhand Pixel.
Yes i was already considering that. Particularly i was looking to buy one on this website , seems like the cheapest option i’ve found so far
Kids are very cheap labour. If you want them to build a phone for you, just buy any other brand.
Bruh so sorry if for me a purchase of 600 euros is just too much, i don’t work and i don’t expect to receive money from anybody right now, so i guess if you are the one who wants to give me the opportunity of not putting kids to build my next phone then now’s your big chance
Just ignore the downvotes, people are garbage and that doubles online!
Yes indeed, reddit taught me this already
Why are you complaining about the price of a smartphone when you don’t even have an income?
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Oh what, i can’t? If i had an income i could magically have the right to rant about it? Even without income, every now and then i manage to make substantial purchases, but we’re talking about 600€ then it’s just too much for me to handle
You can complain about whatever you want, I just don’t understand the logic behind this particular complaint. According to you, not only do you not have an income but you don’t work at all. The problem here is quite clearly your situation in life and not the price of the phone. Complaining about the price of luxury items is just completely asinine when you have no reliable source of income and are doing nothing to change that.
It’s too expensive for me. Not worth it when a used Pixel is way cheaper, has way better hardware and has support for GrapheneOS.
It might be expensive when you compare it to the lifetime of a regular phone, but compare it to what you’d spend instead on regular phones within the potential lifetime of 7-8 years of the FP5 (minus 1-2 minor repairs).
Also no one is talking about that fact that it’s fair as in equitable. Like everyone who worked to make it got paid, which is not something you can say about any of the big phone makes AFAIK.
This does not only depend on the hardware’s lifespan but the software itself too. If there is no longtime support the average user might be better of using a more recent phone where all apps will work and there are not that much security issues.
Official software support for the FF5 is 8 years, I believe
Fairphone offers 8 years of software updates and aims to reach even 10.
Well they can promise updates yes. But they are limited on the android version to the manufacturer of the chips. The company shift which has a similar concept as Fairphone currently suffers from that problem: they cannot upgrade their shift5me to a higher version than android 8 and a lot of apps recently dropped their support to older android versions (e.g. banking apps)
They worked closely with Qualcomm on selecting a chip for this exact reason.
Fairphone have been dealing with this problem of unsupported chips for quite some years now (the hardest lesson learned was probably selecting Mediatek for the FP1) and they’ve become better and better at it - up to the point, that they chose not a mobile, but an IoT SoC for the FP5 for which they got Qualcomm to commit to much longer support than ever before. I don’t see why reason, why they shouldn’t manage to stick to this commitment in this case. On top of that, they’re even working with Qualcomm to allow for replacable SoCs for future upgrades without having to replace the whole mainboard incl. storage etc.
Got me a refurb pixel 5a last year for $100. It’s been great and way better then my moto g power I had previously.
I second this. Got an open box pixel 6 pro this year for $400, still blows most non-flagship current year phones out of the water.
Nice, I got a renewed one from Amazon this year for $330. It was as good as new, no scratches whatsoever, battery health was at 99% and still had 3 months of warranty left.
It’s about half the price of a flagship phone and projected to have 8 years of support. That seems reasonable.
I don’t see it as being “out”. The webpage only has a preorder option and I’ll never preorder anything. I’d wait and see what the general consensus is before buying anything. Things can look good on paper. All that being said, if it’s actually decent then it seems like a pretty good deal.
