I’m currently still using gmail unfortunately
Cock.li (airmail.cc)looks very nice but it is invite only
I use Protonmail as they offer quite a bit of privacy, offer lots of features, and are free. I particularly like that they protect from tracking pixels notifying the sender you read their email.
Proton gang checking in. So much so that I pay them 😊 (actually needed paid features)
Same. Proton gang.
I have plenty to criticize about their lack of creature comforts, but alas.
Yeah… I love proton but their android app also needs work. They’ll get there!
Yeah, the Android app is total garbage.
I don’t know if it’ll ever “get there” because they’ve not demonstrated that they’re putting in any effort at all. It’s currently on version 3.0.16. According to ApkMirror, they released 3.0.1 in June of 2022. So that’s over a year of “stability improvements and bug fixes”. Meanwhile they launched Proton Pass, Proton captcha, desktop clients for Drive, introducing new plans, etc.
Honestly, I just want threaded conversations on mobile.
They released the rewrite as a beta apk at the weekend for testers. So it’s definitely going somewhere.
It’s faster and has conversations on the app too.
https://proton.me/support/mail-android-beta
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/16veha9/join_the_new_proton_mail_beta_on_android/
Indeed, same here but while using my own domain name, this way if some day, for whatever reason, either they go “bad” or I find “better” I can switch without much worry.
Protonmail and SimpleLogin has been a great combo.
They don’t support email clients in the free tier tho, so not exactly “free”.
Then pay for it if that’s a feature you want. They make a product, and want to get paid for it.
I meant that with the free tier lacking such a basic and necessary feature, you cannot really say the service is “free”.
Posteo.de - 100% renewable energy. Full industry standard encryption. No tracking, no adds. Annual transparency report. Supporting social and environmental efforts. Great treatment of their employees.
Its reliable but I might look into other options that aren’t so far away
Why would that matter?
Latency and speed
I mean, its email. What’s the difference between 1 second and 5 seconds? I don’t get why this is an issue, its hardly e-🐌✉️
mailbox.org is quite good. I prefer them over protonmail because I want to use my own client. If you don’t care about using a web UI, use protonmail, otherwise use mailbox.org. you can also take a look at tutanota
Also comes with an XMPP account built in, although they should probably update their Ejabberd sometimes 😅
Opinion on the price changes? 1 eur plan doesn’t work with custom domains anymore so I’m looking for alternatives.
Tbh I did not realize their prices increased. I’m happy to pay for their service though. It’s the only subscription I pay.
Strictly speaking it’s not a price increase, the 1 EUR plan is still there. However, support for custom domains has been removed and is only available from 3 EUR plan and upwards under the new pricing scheme.
I’m kind of grandfathered into the old 1 EUR plan that still supports custom domains, but I can’t extend it any further. This means when my account credit dries up I need to choose one of the new pricing schemes ( 1 eur w/o custom domain vs 3 eur … etc.)
Did not know this… Also currently on the 1 EUR plan since it was the best bang for buck that included custom domains. Might start looking into other options when my plan runs out
Search your inbox, they (mailbox.org admin) have sent multiple emails in the past urging users to choose between the new pricing schemes.
As for the alternatives, I’m considering runbox.com and migadu.com, but not entirely sure.
migadu does seem like a good option. Curious what you have chosen? I am also looking at fastmail standard to replace simplelogin email aliasing since it would be the same price as simplelogin + migadu/runbox.
Sorry for the late answer. I ended up choosing Midagu for the time being. Unlimited inbox sounded attractive enough as using alias in my use case wasn’t cutting it.
I’m oldschool.
I’ve had my own domains and mail servers for the past 3 decades and will maintain them for as long as I live.
And these days, all but the storage runs of Pi3, so it’s barely using any power either.
How is your deliverability? I’ve heard private servers are often blocked outright by the big providers but don’t have any first hand experience with it myself.
Never had any big issues, as there have always been providers here that stood by having an open network for its subscribers, even in the dialup age.
And because they existed, the major providers don’t tend to do that either (at least not anymore).
Most ludicrous thing is that the one time I DID have issues with port blocks (port 21/53/80/443 aka ftp/dns/http/https) was the first time I switched from a domestic line to a business one with one of the largest providers here. They did that as a default unless you called them to unblock everything.
But in the past decade, on fiber, never had an issue, the providers that were first to deliver fiber were new ones that broke from two of the major ISPs respectively owning ALL the coax and ALL the copper in the country, which allowed them to set their own rules.
And their competitive edge wasn’t on price, but on giving you a ludicrously fast and stable connection with the only limitation being what the fiber could carry, although now, when the major ISPs are also finally providing fiber, their pricing compared to my own ISP is kinda ludicrous.
My current ISPs advertised philosophy is “security is your responsibility, a stable fast connection ours”. And so far, they’ve held true to that.
Besides that, almost as long, I first rented and now own a box at a datacenter, which among its secondary tasks runs a backup NS and backup MX as I had the box anyway. To this date, the only times that backup had to do anything was when I was moving and when there are announced network maintenance or other works (of which the longest I can remember was 1 hour and only happen 2 times per year).
I get that if I lived in the US, this would not be quite as practical to achieve.
I worked for a US ISP in the early 00’s, was looking to provide WIFI in rural Texas areas. Setup the hardware and backend for them. Became quickly apparent from what they were demanding from the backend, that their focus wasn’t particularly to bring access to rural areas, but to milk the shit out of providing WIFI to rural areas.
Don’t get me wrong tho, I still have several Gmail addresses that are as old as the service itself is. I rather use a gmail address to sign up to sites and have them deal with the subsequent deluge of spam, than to have that shit tax my own system :P
I was actually referring to big email providers treating private email servers as spammy solely by virtue of the fact that they’re not sufficiently known to them. I had just read somewhere that it’s an increasing problem that may become self fulfilling. What I read might have been hyperbolic :)
Thanks for the read, I’m always interested to hear about people’s experiences with self hosting.
Email providers of every size don’t just blanket block unknown servers, that’s just asking for problems and loads of additional work.
They block known problems and detect likely problems.
Tools like ASSP (the spam filter I’ve used for a long ass time and used to install anywhere corporate filters weren’t in the budget) use advanced heuristics in combination with every form of blacklists/whitelist/greylist filtering you can think of (both on DNS and snmp levels), to look at the contents of the mail in combination with how “normal” the DNS registration and responses of the mailserver are. Add to that the default of checking that an @microsoft.com email actually comes from a known Microsoft server. There’s scores of public white and blacklists, generated by spam filters by receiving mail correctly from sources, which makes them go on whitelists and by detecting spam, which makes them go on blacklists. These lists have been around for decades by now and are constantly updated (mostly automatically).
You don’t do email security and spam filtering by being an ass to everyone you don’t explicitly know. You do it be looking for any suspicious signs and user feedback. Just blocking by default is a far bigger headache than letting your tools do their work and then going in manually when they miss something.
Google goes one step further and outright receives ALL mail, including spam, and just puts what is detected as spam in a spam folder.
First company I got to that had no spam filtering deployed at all, went from 3 million emails received per day to just over 50K. Most people in that company ran a (pirated) Outlook plugin that did desktop level spam filtering and still had to manually filter more than 90% of the mail they received and then every week or so, deleted their spam folder.
After I installed ASSP there, as I said, it went down to receiving only 50K emails per day, of which about 30K were still spam. After 2 weeks, it was down to 20K (a combination of me using the reporting tools from mail that landed in my own mailbox and the spam filter heuristics engine getting smarter from learning from the spam it received) and then I had a meeting with the whole company to teach them how to report spam (and whitelist known senders and false positives).
A month or two into the deployment, people were used to using the reporting button and they were down to receiving maybe 1 or 2 spam emails per day (which often were still detected as questionable, but not definitely spam) as they (the email senders) were completely new to the system.
This because spam outfits are relatively quickly detected, so they often have to change IPs, domains and methods and because of that, they perpetually exist on greylists which get scrutinized more heavily by filters.
A domain like mine, that has been running and sending/receiving email for decades, mostly to completely official destinations like banks, corporate clients, governments and other established instances, without ever even hinting at sending spam, will rarely have any issue delivering its mail to its target as it is already known on black/whitelists generators as a good sender.
Internet is cheap and reliable where I live (US). Not all places are bad it just depends on how much competition there is
We use cPanel emails at work… don’t ask, please 😭😂. Since we’ve got off a couple of large website hosting platforms it appears to be smooth sailing.
We’re currently hosting our emails with a small web hosting provider, ‘only 250k’ websites are hosted with them. They apparently use SSDs for customer data and boy oh boy is that apparent. Emails are sync’d, sent, and received faster than any other cPanel emails we’ve been on. We’ve only been with them for about 1-1.5 years, so something might come up one day.
I know it’s not quite self hosting, but it’s quite close to it.
Oh god, I bet that UI looks at least ten years old D:
The speed sounds good though!
Though with 250k sites their IPs would at least have a sizable reputation, I was referring more to private email servers that aren’t big enough to generate much of a reputation being auto-blocked by the Gmails and Outlooks of the world. Again I don’t have experience with this, I’d just read somewhere that it’s a growing problem with the big providers only granting any trust to email services above a certain size and therefore reputation.
I still use email clients. Not sure if that’s now considered the old school way of doing things? So the UI doesn’t come into it at all.
I’m not sure how much impact the IP address/server of the mail server has on reputation. I know the domain name and its DNS records have somewhat of an impact.
RE email clients, I think in the personal space it’s much more common to use the web app these days. I find the inverse is true for the business space. What desktop client do you use, out of interest? I’ve been a long time commercial Google user but want to move away and will likely switch to a desktop client along with that change
IP address and domain name can both be used for email reputation purposes. If you self host on a cloud provider that isn’t strict enough on outbound spam, for example, then you might find your sending IP gets blacklisted by virtue of being in an IP range with spammers.
I use Outlook at work, Mailbird at home, and Nine on my mobile devices.
Is self hosting a valid answer?
I host my own email.
Where do you host that’s reasonably priced and still has an IP pool that isn’t immediately blacklisted by Google, Yahoo and Microsoft?
I self host an email server at home with a 1€/month domain from strato.de, and I just use their SMTP server as relay. No issues so far, and they also include a backup mx for when my home server goes offline.
That’s a pretty good setup. I used to use Amazon SES same way, but they dropped free SES tier. Still reasonably cheap, but more than 1€/mo.
I have to say though, having someone else take care of all updates, backups, etc is worth it for $10/year. You can also bring your own domain. Their servers are not the fastest, but that’s my only real complaint with purelymail.com.
ICD Soft
I’ve used them for 20 years. I’ve never had an email problem. Their spam detection and mitigation is pretty good too.
Well I have some hardware colocated at a DC so I can’t speaktoo much about cost plus IP reputation. I can also only rely on individual IP blacklist checking. If MS has decided on their own to blacklist an entire subnet there isn’t much to be done about that.
That’s what I mean. You cannot host in Hetzner, for example, unless you use an outside service like SES for outgoing mail. Their IPs are globally shit listed.
I can’t think of another provider that even comes close in pricing for colo services.
My main point is that it is seemingly impossible to tell what Microsoft has and has not shit listed because may operate their own internal list which isn’t published.
I’m somewhat of the opinion though that more people should self host email and try to be a thorn in the side of these corps implementing arbitrary rules. If more people aren’t receiving email more reports about I will be generated and that will hopefully result in more people like us getting our email successfully delivered.
Couldn’t agree more, but these policies exist because spammers host their own servers. Without a network of trust, you’d have to dig through a thousand of emails every day to find the one from your friend.
On the one hand I hear self hosting email is great, on the other hand I hear it’s a pain in the ass to get whitelisted
I’ve had zero problems getting whitelisted, but I also don’t send email much these days.
Well my IP isn’t on any blacklists but I can’t speak on getting whitelistred" by providers. I can send to gmail without going to spam. Idon’t generally send much email though.
Just curious, are you using DDNS or do you have a static IP?
I have static IPs. That is going to be a required item for hosting email.
I use Fastmail - not too expensive, really good webmail client, has working shared calendar that isn’t OWA, and isn’t advertising scraping my e-mail. I would have liked a more private service, but back when I moved from self hosted to a service, that was about the best I could get that also had calendaring.
I also switched to Fastmail. iirc they are not the best privacy wise as they are based in Australia. They do however have a no-nonsense IMAP connection (unlike Protonmail) and they allow multiple custom domains without extra pay. The IMAP connection however is not available on the lowest tier.
So far I’ve not regretted the switch, and it also integrates nicely with 1Password masked mails.
Proton (free - 1GB storage, 500MB before doing 4 “tasks”) for family, friends, and business types uses, although I’d rather have an integrated calendar (instead of it being a separate app).
Tutanota (free - 1GB storage) for bills, purchases, etc., basically everything else, because I’m never going to say “my email is xxxxx@TUTAmail.com” to anyone I know, especially business acquaintances. So far, I like Tutanota more than Proton, especially the integrated calendar, but that name… sounds like something my mother or grandparents were scammed into using.
On desktop, I’m currently using Thunderbird (TB) for a couple of older gmail accounts (in the process of transitioning away from), although I hate the recent update to TB. Haven’t tried the Tutanota desktop app yet, but web version of email & calendar work adequately. Maybe I’ll transition from TB now, after their recent changes.
Considered mailbox.org, but I’m not going to pay for it (no free version), especially when they don’t at least have a cell app. Skiff may be worth looking at. Can’t recall why I didn’t try them.
EDIT: I’ve now installed Skiff (free - 10GB) as well and liking it so far. Using webmail seems easy and straight forward, cell app looks about the same (but haven’t spent too much time on it yet). REALLY like that you basically get 4 email accounts (1 main and 3 alias account names), which is different than Tutanota and Proton. With the different aliases, this gives me an option to use Skiff for everything (if I choose to “put everything in one basket” at some point). Skiff sounds a little better than “Tuta” for business acquaintances as well, but not by much. No integrated calendar, but significantly larger storage is a plus.
Any email with cock in the name will trigger filtering. It also has the side effect of making me unemployable
I tried Proton, even paid for a year. But hot damn the Android app is garbage. So I’ve moved to Fastmail and I like it a lot. The app is snappy and I love that it has calendar, contacts, mail, notes, and files storage all in the same app. I used a custom domain with Proton so wasn’t hard to switch to a different provider. Just wish I would’ve known how bad the mobile app was before I plunked down the money.
They are rewriting android app from scratch rn
I’ve heard that. Boy does it need it. But I’ll admit I don’t like that their focus seems to be on introducing new products instead of making their existing lineup more reliable/performant. And not making many strides in the Linux world.
Fastmail here as well. I don’t need super privacy. The phone app is great. Was easy to setup my personal domain.
I moved from Tutanota and Proton to Skiff, though I’m still waiting for their privacy claims to be put to the test so I’m keeping my old accounts around just in case.
They offer more storage was my main reason for switching, the free tier seems like a decent Google free tier replacement as long as they don’t screw us over
Proton because it came with the vpn.
Email has no privacy, almost all my email communication is with companies I buy things from.
Moreover, I like that it removes power from google.
I use protonmail, simplelogin (for email aliases) and tutanota.
Protonmail, but not really because of encryption. I just liked their Android client and webmail the most. I’ve had sensitive backups on Proton Drive for a long time, so that also played a role in the choice.
I hosted my own server for quite a few years, but the SMTP clients (Thunderbird, Evolution, K9 mail) all doing things slightly differently made me give up. Biggest push was that K9 mail didn’t really move deleted mail to trash. These were probably dovecot configuration issues, but I got tired of searching for solutions. Never had any deliverability issues.
This one isn’t for daily private use, more like a throwaway email service for when sites and services have no earthly business asking your email other than to track you and send junk mail…
Edit: You don’t even have to register an account with them, just make up an email with them and it should just work for most sites.
I use irrelevant at dispostable dot com to use Walmart’s free WiFi, the password on Walmart’s side is Walmart1 hahahaha!
I’m gonna steal your walmart wifi
this is a sometimes useful website for sharing logins - especially for websies that shouldn’t need logins.
thanks for the link!
LOL, go for it, I gave Walmart the name ‘Anonymous Human’, as if I was gonna give them a real name… 😂🤣
My last trip to Walmart I used the email secretshopper@Walmart.com
Tutanota. I used to use Proton, but they don’t encrypt folder names, which is a deal breaker. Tutanota does, and they’re also a privacy respecting, reputable, decent service.
Is that true? They don’t encrypt labels on proton?
Sadly, yes. A Proton team member on Reddit confirmed it a couple years back:
Folder/label names are visible to the server (for filters and other reasons) as are email metadata. Message and attachment contents are encrypted and not visible to the server.
Do note that this is ONLY true for Mail. Calendar, and Drive does encrypt folders/label names.
Subject lines are also not encrypted, unlike Tutanota.
How would that work? Email doesn’t have a subject line encryption standard.
They implemented their own way of doing this. They don‘t use PGP. I don‘t know how it exactly works, but it‘s open source, so you can look at it yourself.
The problem is it doesn’t work unless everyone does it the same way. Pgp isn’t perfect but at least its a standard.
