I understand opposition to the Israeli government’s activities in the West Bank and Gaza. Obviously that government should be targeted by BDS. Businesses also seem fair game. But what about individuals? For example, if an artist posts periodically online, should they also be subject to boycott?
Typically the BDSM goes until someone says the safe word.
Is this a joke?
Yes
Is this hypothetical artist an Israeli settler in the West Bank? If so, I certainly would not give them my money. Otherwise, if we’re just talking about some random Israeli then there’s nothing inherently objectionable about that.
I have no idea. That’s a pertinent question that needs an answer.
The goal of a grassroots boycott is to show enough popular support to make a government boycott feasible. You don’t have to hurt individuals to do that, you just have to make it clear there’s popular support for an international boycott. So big companies yes, protests yes, signs yes, petitions yes… You can skip individuals
Agreed in principal. And individuals are not synonymous with their governments. Yet this also seems like a workaround to avoid the issue.
@CaptObvious Corporations are subject to boycot, individuals to dialog. If an individual Israeli takes a pro-war/apartheid stance online then they should be challenged, but if they are for peace and reconciliation then they should be supported.
Not one cent of mine goes to Israel, as far as I have any say in the matter.
Random individuals pay taxes, and taxes fund genocide.
A fair point.
Unlike for example what Myanmar did to the Rohingya, neither the UN nor any human rights organizations of note have used the term “genocide” related to what Israel does or did.
In the 3-D-Test this statement easily fulfills “double standards” and “demonization” and is clearly antisemitic.
Fuck off.
If you don’t want to be called out don’t spread bullshit.
Said as one who knows about spreading bullshit.
The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights would like a word: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against
As would the International Criminal Court with regard to war crimes: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56249927
For that matter, the governments of Brazil, South Africa, and Colombia: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/07/genocide-israel-gaza-palestine/
Even Amnesty International has called Israel’s actions “apartheid”: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/
So yeah, both the UN and many human rights organizations of note have called out Israel.
I visited 3 of the links you gave me. One is newer than my comment, and it is dedicated to UN experts, as opposed to the organization, so still not a contradiction to my comment. They seem biased to me, focusing hard on the “children are dying” argument and totally ignoring any right of Israel for self defense in the aftermath of October 7th. Here’s one thing I don’t understand, maybe you can help me: if Gaza has seen no fresh water for weeks, as so many say, why is it “only” 11.000 dead and not hundreds of thousands, or a million?
The other from 2021 talks about investigations by the ICC against Israel and Hamas. And you know what? I’m glad they’re looking into that. Alas so far it didn’t get to any conclusions.
Then you mixed in the apartheid charge in a comment over genocide. I think that’s incoherent as an argument but won’t fight against that one.
And then there’s the global south, which apparently has a long brewed hatred against Israel for reasons I don’t know. That didn’t start with October 7th. I’m aware of deep seated antisemitism in their leftist parties, and I know that the german Nazis fled to South America when they could, but don’t know enough about their politics to contextualize a single article. So I can’t say anything about that, other than I never heard something from down their that made it clear they even try to get away from antisemitism.
In conclusion the word genocide, which is quite well defined, still doesn’t seem to uphold to the situation in Gaza. Particularly this week seems to show that a genocide is not Israel’s intention, even when it is in a situation of absolute power. At least not while anyone else than their far right extremist parties has something to say.
Now, what happens in situations where the Hamas has absolute power we saw during those dreadful hours on October 7th. They hunt down civilians, stopping at nothing unless stopped by force.
Tell me, how should Israel fight such an opponent, who just today, in the context of a ceasefire called for escalation.
I admit that I’m flabbergasted. Do you actually suggest that it’s acceptable to kill children in their homes, schools, and hospital NICUs?
No I don’t want children to violently die, nor in any other way. They deserve to live their life. In war, among men and women, children die. Therefore I prefer a world without war.
As far as this under complex argument goes that’s all I can say.
I don’t get the vibe you would listen to what the international humanitarian law says about real world situations where war actually occurs, therefore I won’t waste my time spelling this out.
under complex argument…
I have no idea what this is.
I don’t get the vibe you would listen to what the international humanitarian law says…
On the contrary, I’m always happy to read or hear from someone who knows more than I do. I’ve seen no evidence that this person is you.
I won’t waste my time…
No one asked you to waste your time so far. You did so voluntarily. But you’ve finally found something on which we agree, so I congratulate you for that.
Peace.
under complex argument…
I have no idea what this is.
A bad translation apparently. Dictionary says I should have used “oversimplified”
It originated from some anti-Semitic movements. So you can expect them to stop at nothing.
(doesn’t matter what you think they ‘should’ or ‘should not’)
Let’s not conflate anti-Israeli-government with antisemitism. That’s a tired old tactic that’s run its course.
Yeah, but let’s also not ignore that antisemitism in the past weeks has become wider spread than for a long long time, and often is hidden behind various criticism of Israel. For distinguishing legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism there’s the 3-D test.
How does one boycott the Israeli government?
Here’s a criticism of Israel for you:
The rise in anti-semitism is primarily Israel’s fault.Antisemitism was always there. The problem of palestinians is embedded into it, because Antisemites count on the continued suffering of the palestinians. They want dying palestinian children they can blame on Israel, and with the palestinian children dying you can see their eyes brighten up these days. Because now they can go rampant with their undifferentiated hatred against all Israel and all Jews.
But that’s consistent. Palestines are Semites, too, after all. Just don’t try to hide your hatred behind “concern”.
Isn’t Israel quite happy to keep Israel and Judaism undifferentiated, though? They seem happy to conflate anti-zionism with anti-semitism, and even any criticism of the state of Israel, or support of Palestine as anti-semitism. With such broad and frankly ridiculous definitions, I’m not surprised to see a rise in so-called anti-semitism.
I wouldn’t be surprised if hateful people did take delight in the genocide Israel is perpetrating, but I don’t see it. And criticising genocidal actions doesn’t require hatred for the perpetrators in order to be valid. Anti-semites were clear to lambast Israel at any point in the past 100 or so years, even more so now. And so were normal people.
The 3D Test was developed specifically to differentiate between legitimate criticisms of Israel policy and hidden antisemitism.
It’s a rule of thumb, it doesn’t cover each and every case, and there’s always a gray zone, but it’s not a bad one.
If you can’t criticize someone without demonizing or delegitimizing a whole state you maybe should refrain from talking publicly.
Would you prevaricate thusly when speaking about, say, the third Reich? Or would you “delegitimise” that entire state? Maybe you should think twice before publicly “demonising” the Nazis?
Sometimes a “whole state” bears criticism. Israel does, right now, because it is committing war crimes with western support.
The 3D test unfortunately proves nothing. It would be very useful if we could prove criticism of Israel was coming from an anti-semitic place, but you can’t, because you can’t read minds. It’s one of the most insidious features of all racism: it’s very easy to hide. At the moment, though, it is fair to assume that a majority of the criticism of Israel comes from common decency and human compassion, because the IDF are dropping tower blocks on children in their thousands in “self-defense”. Anyone enabling those types of actions is the worst of humanity because of their actions and decisions, not because of which god they pray to.
Without operational definitions, it does nothing of the sort. It is, however, a clever mnemonic and easy to repeat.
