Summary
Ling’er, a 28-year-old transgender woman in China, won a record 60,000 yuan ($8,200 USD) in compensation after being subjected to involuntary electroshock conversion therapy at a hospital.
Her parents admitted her in 2022, opposing her gender identity, and she endured seven sessions over 97 days, causing lasting health issues.
The court ruled her personal rights were violated, marking the first legal victory for a trans person against such practices in China.
LGBTQ+ advocates hailed the decision, highlighting persistent challenges and legal grey areas surrounding conversion practices in the country.
Good for her, but only $8k? For a lifetime of health issues?
This seems outrageous for the US, but with universal health care, the cost of living in China and the legal difficulties to get a payout in medical malpractice. This is a significant win for that woman and their legal system.
Good! Bodily autonomy is one of the foundations of human rights. Also what the fuck doc‽
Conversion therapy is a crime against humanity. This is what the American evangelical right wants to do with us.
Ling’er’s doctor claimed in August that she might pose a risk to the safety of her parents if they killed themselves because of her gender identity, according to a report in Chinese media.
Careful doc, you might pull a muscle reaching that hard.
The way many Asian countries view relationships between parents, offspring, and social status is very, very different than what we’re used to in the West, and while it’s all just more social constructs and norms being maintained like we know here, the similarities end there.
It would take a long to really explain, and several dozen people would chime in to say how their own family and upbringing was different, so it’s not really something you can “teach” but it’s worth pointing out that our normal lense in which we view family is not going to make sense looking at some families in other areas.
Not really - face and outward appearance to the group is ridiculously important in Asian cultures.
The point that we should all be angry with is that the parents (and there social group) viewed transgender as something so inherently bad that the shame warrants suicide.
Fuck the transphobes.
Her parents are adults. If they were feeling suicidal due to their losing face then that’s their problem to address, not their child’s.
The relationship between family and social status is very, very different across many Asian countries than it is in the West generally. The same kinds of sentiments don’t really apply.
Not saying that it’s okay how the doctors and family treated this person, and it’s great that she got some justice after, quite untypical for the region, but I would discourage people from viewing these interactions through the lens of western norms. You likely have no idea.
I recognize their culture is geared towards collectivism rather than the individualism of the west. I think that collectivist mentality is great in many instances but this is a clear situation where its drawbacks rear their head.
I think it’s more beneficial to look at their level of progress towards accepting individuality as a journey we can learn lessons from. I don’t think it’s good any more than I think many of our own cultural norms are good, and definitely worse in many ways, but I just wanted to drop a reminder that people who read this and say “Why didn’t [person] just do [thing]??” or other judgements are probably completely missing how any of these people feel.
…then …commit …them???
Also I was really hoping that they were at least referring to ECT under full surgical level sedation & anesthesia which, while wildly inappropriate for gender dysphoria, would at least be a modern therapeutic intervention (it’s an induced controlled seizure done under complete surgical anesthesia) but no, after reading it sounds like they were basically just wiring her nipples up to a car battery. They don’t state that explicitly but she mentions fainting… wait. She mentions cardiac arrhythmias. That would actually be consistent with the shocks having been applied to the chest area. Jfc.
Or just let them? Fuck their fragility.
Electrocute them a little bit first.
…nah. I said what I said. Commit them and use unsedated unanaesthetized shock therapy. Sounds like they were willing to sign off on it for their “loved one,” the least they can do is give it a spin for themselves.
She is the one at risk of suicide not them.
Transphobes are always making it about themselves with their histrionics.
“Record payout” of 8,000 dollars vs a lifetime of trauma. Tough choice
This is not the right way to put it. She won 60,000 CNY, not 8,000 USD. A “low-wage” worker at a fast food restaurant or a coffee shop in the city earns 20-30 CNY per hour.
This is a pretty substantial payout by Chinese standards. At the same time, China doesn’t recognise “punitive” damages or “emotional damages” as a thing. The response to the notion of “punitive damages” is “don’t you mean a fine?”, and that to “emotional damages” is that “there is no such thing, you can just get over it”.
Ok. Bro its not about the dollar amount; that was just a rhetorical device…
not just trauma but also heart problems that require medication…
incredibly fucked up but the hospital getting a slap on the wrist is a good first step at least.
Man reading “Chinese court ruled rights were violated” is such a rollercoaster ride
Rare China W. I hope she recovers quickly.
Yeahhhh… a payout of 8k for essentially being tortured is not a win.
Chinese law does not recognise the concept of paying someone compensation for suffering trauma.
They just had a major step forward in trans rights in china. She could have received more, but the amount of money isn’t the part that makes it a win.
Yeah, this is far more about the government asserting that she was wronged and it’s illegal. I know trans people who’ve won rights in court and that’s often an inspiration for fighting. Nothing can undo the trauma she faced (though I hope it pays to try), but making sure others don’t suffer the same matters
this is an achievement BECAUSE it’s China, how tf is this a w
It is a major step forward for trans rights in China which is a win. They’ve been virtually non-existent.
it’s a w for the trans people in china not a w for china
I mean sure, if you don’t consider the people of china to be China, but we’re going down semantics here.
Believe it or not, people who happen to be born in a place are not interchangeable with the authoritarian government that rules over them.
And government does not equal country. However both the goverment and the people are part of the country. When Chinese people win, the country wins. I said China, I.e. the country, not the government. If I had been talking about the government I would have said the CCP, which I am not trying to lift up in my comment. Fuck the CCP.
A country IS a government, it’s just an organization represented by an arbitrary line on a map run by people who embrace violence to take power and resources from other people.
yeah nah the people of china aren’t the same thing as the judicial system of china
I never said the judicial system of China, I said China as in the country, people of China are a subset of China the country, therefore a Chinese people W is a China W. Can we stop this pointless conversation now?
It’s impossible to have a conversation here without a half dozen people chiming in with "ackshually!
I, and every other neuro-normal person knew what you meant. I’d wager the commenter did too they just didn’t know how to contribute because the social skills thing.
you kinda implied it’s a w by the judicial system of china when you made that first comment, otherwise it doesn’t make much sense. A ‘w’ imo usually refers to good brought as a result of a party’s active actions, and if you meant the people when you said china it really wouldn’t make sense because it’s mostly a dictatorship.
anyway I’m good to stop having the argument now, you don’t have to reply
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