This is just basic psychology. It takes a long time to change someone’s political beliefs, and it isn’t effective to just argue with people, even with facts. Interestingly, one way to get people to change their opinion is to frame things in terms of how it affects them and their family.
It took me…I’d say 2 years from being a full conservative to a left-leaning independent. And then another 2 years to being a moderate to progressive liberal.
It does happen. But some people are so rooted in their political identity that they will never change.
That’s pretty much the process I went through ~20 years ago. The individual has to care about actual evidence and truth rather than the “truth = agree with me” crap that is common.
I think a big, big part of it is realizing that the people on your side are not necessarily arguing in good faith just because they’re on the “correct” team.
And that’s a pretty big deal when “just ignore that, it’s not real” is a deep core practice of your team.
The liberals in government need a little help, we should all unionize too so they won’t have to focus as much on worker’s rights. Like even shut down the rails if we need to. They can become the moderate option to keep things running.
Also: One conversation might not change someone completely but it can be part of a process. Be happy when people open up and don’t try to convince everyone at once. Leave them with a good feeling, that will be more effective than having all the facts right and be angry with them. They will more likely think about it and change their view eventually (looking at you Alex, the first vegan I ever met and who left me with a good impression)
I think you’re right for a large segment, but I’m convinced that there are people with some brains and heart that just happen to be surrounded by right wing ideologies and unexposed to and given misinformation about ideas outside their bubble.
Exactly, and to anyone reading this: the absolute DUMBEST most useless form of communication is insulting someone you don’t agree with. I see it way too much here to be honest. All that does is make you feel better (masturbation) while it makes the recipient more defensive, less inclined to listen, and it reenforces their beliefs that the “opposite side” is just full of angry ignorant people.
If the purpose of your attempt at communication was actual communication and understanding then insulting someone is completely antithetical to that.
Hey covid will still kill you even if you call it a hoax.
Rep: you God damn liberals are ruining this county
Several family members die
Rep: they died of pneumonia not covid covid is a hoax and a Chinese bioweapon.
Like I can’t tell that they actually give a fuck about reality anymore even when they can directly see it killing them they still deny it.
This. I had to finally cut out a conservative friend after a long run of various nonsense, far from the least of which was him shushing me for being “too political” saying I want our half hour busses back - right before him and his girlfriend talked guns and other pointed “conservative” interests for an hour.
I was just there for them to flex on and outnumber for fun. We have common interests and used to discuss and enjoy them together, her included, but without any of our other friends around to put weight on the balance they could indulge in their favorite past time - Dunking on librulz.
Meanwhile people still saying they’d rather be intubated than having taken a vaccine, cursing it with their last breath. Repeated story countless times in hundreds of hospitals
I don’t. Fuck intubating them, fuck admitting them to the hospital at all, that’s room that could go to treating someone not dying from the consequences of their own actions.
I always had the weird thought that maybe conservatives could be convinced into reason if socialistic ideals were reframed to “sound” more conservative. Sadly I suck at anything relating to politics so eh.
That’s how I’ve framed raising the minimum wage to some hard right co workers.
Why should my tax dollars subsidize Walmart, McDonald’s and these other companies that pay minimum wage knowing their workers will be on welfare? If your business has to pay a wage that has to be compensated by the government, it’s a failing business.
That’s the way! Using the same rhetorical pattern they are used to hearing, “they took our jobs!” and slightly modifying it to point to a different “evil”, the corporations rather than the traditional scapegoats.
Due to how I look and where I work, conservatives constantly assume I am one too. I used to discuss/debate them about their views. I gave that up. Now I just say I disagree so that even if they tell others that everyone that talk to agrees with them, somewhere in the back of the their mind they know that’s not true.
The driving force, the raison d’etre of the authoritarian mind is to be normal. Not be happy, not be rich, not be good, be normal, by whatever they feel is normal. Not only is it pretty pathetic, it makes them justify their beliefs with the idea that they are normal even though they are anything but.
Not just a thought, these people don’t think through their political beliefs (to be fair many people don’t, but most others don’t make it a core part of themselves either), it’s mostly just aesthetics for them.
This is just basic psychology. It takes a long time to change someone’s political beliefs, and it isn’t effective to just argue with people, even with facts. Interestingly, one way to get people to change their opinion is to frame things in terms of how it affects them and their family.
It took me…I’d say 2 years from being a full conservative to a left-leaning independent. And then another 2 years to being a moderate to progressive liberal.
It does happen. But some people are so rooted in their political identity that they will never change.
That’s pretty much the process I went through ~20 years ago. The individual has to care about actual evidence and truth rather than the “truth = agree with me” crap that is common.
I think a big, big part of it is realizing that the people on your side are not necessarily arguing in good faith just because they’re on the “correct” team.
And that’s a pretty big deal when “just ignore that, it’s not real” is a deep core practice of your team.
Oh God you said the L word
The liberals in government need a little help, we should all unionize too so they won’t have to focus as much on worker’s rights. Like even shut down the rails if we need to. They can become the moderate option to keep things running.
Also: One conversation might not change someone completely but it can be part of a process. Be happy when people open up and don’t try to convince everyone at once. Leave them with a good feeling, that will be more effective than having all the facts right and be angry with them. They will more likely think about it and change their view eventually (looking at you Alex, the first vegan I ever met and who left me with a good impression)
Yeah but usually people aren’t this self aware
It seems best to facilitate people’s ability to change on their own. Plant seeds of cognitive dissonance and walk away.
You think cognitive dissonance is a bug that they would take to realize they are wrong. But it is a core feature of far right ideologies
I think you’re right for a large segment, but I’m convinced that there are people with some brains and heart that just happen to be surrounded by right wing ideologies and unexposed to and given misinformation about ideas outside their bubble.
Exactly, and to anyone reading this: the absolute DUMBEST most useless form of communication is insulting someone you don’t agree with. I see it way too much here to be honest. All that does is make you feel better (masturbation) while it makes the recipient more defensive, less inclined to listen, and it reenforces their beliefs that the “opposite side” is just full of angry ignorant people.
If the purpose of your attempt at communication was actual communication and understanding then insulting someone is completely antithetical to that.
Hey covid will still kill you even if you call it a hoax.
Rep: you God damn liberals are ruining this county Several family members die
Rep: they died of pneumonia not covid covid is a hoax and a Chinese bioweapon.
Like I can’t tell that they actually give a fuck about reality anymore even when they can directly see it killing them they still deny it.
That’s a different problem. Too much propaganda from right wing interests.
So how do you combat that if even their family dying around them isn’t enough to get them to even consider those people on tv might have lied to them?
I wish I knew the answer. At this point, much of it has become closely linked to their personality, and is basically a cult.
This. I had to finally cut out a conservative friend after a long run of various nonsense, far from the least of which was him shushing me for being “too political” saying I want our half hour busses back - right before him and his girlfriend talked guns and other pointed “conservative” interests for an hour.
I was just there for them to flex on and outnumber for fun. We have common interests and used to discuss and enjoy them together, her included, but without any of our other friends around to put weight on the balance they could indulge in their favorite past time - Dunking on librulz.
Meanwhile people still saying they’d rather be intubated than having taken a vaccine, cursing it with their last breath. Repeated story countless times in hundreds of hospitals
I only wish they get what they ask for.
I don’t. Fuck intubating them, fuck admitting them to the hospital at all, that’s room that could go to treating someone not dying from the consequences of their own actions.
Either way, the unvaccinated spreading is what caused so many mutations and variants.
Not sure how that’s relevant to my comment, but yeah.
I always had the weird thought that maybe conservatives could be convinced into reason if socialistic ideals were reframed to “sound” more conservative. Sadly I suck at anything relating to politics so eh.
That’s how I’ve framed raising the minimum wage to some hard right co workers.
Why should my tax dollars subsidize Walmart, McDonald’s and these other companies that pay minimum wage knowing their workers will be on welfare? If your business has to pay a wage that has to be compensated by the government, it’s a failing business.
That’s the way! Using the same rhetorical pattern they are used to hearing, “they took our jobs!” and slightly modifying it to point to a different “evil”, the corporations rather than the traditional scapegoats.
Due to how I look and where I work, conservatives constantly assume I am one too. I used to discuss/debate them about their views. I gave that up. Now I just say I disagree so that even if they tell others that everyone that talk to agrees with them, somewhere in the back of the their mind they know that’s not true.
It’s interesting how it seems so important for “conservatives” to believe that everyone agrees with them
Cause they know the policies are cruel and doing cruel things is easier when others buy in.
The driving force, the raison d’etre of the authoritarian mind is to be normal. Not be happy, not be rich, not be good, be normal, by whatever they feel is normal. Not only is it pretty pathetic, it makes them justify their beliefs with the idea that they are normal even though they are anything but.
Everyone should be a business owner!
Not just a thought, these people don’t think through their political beliefs (to be fair many people don’t, but most others don’t make it a core part of themselves either), it’s mostly just aesthetics for them.
Aesthetics or athletics, they see it as a team sport too lol Gotta support the reds even if they really really suck this… Century.
The elephant and the rider
For stupid people, that might be true.
Nothing to do with intelligence I promise.