With fighting raging around Khan Younis and in the north of Gaza, a video has emerged on social media showing dozens of Palestinian men detained by Israel.

  • AmosBurton@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    13
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    either

    You mean they should only apply to Israel?

    Can we please remember that the red cross didn’t even get to see Israels hostages… That the cruelty they experienced is beyond any imaginable…

    Did you see the video of them cutting off a woman’s breast and playing soccer with it? Where were the women’s rights groups??

    Keep in mind that this location(where the terrorist were detained in their underware) is where all the hostages were paraded. So all these men were there celebrating Israel’s pain/Hamas’s success.

    Leaving those men(who were in an evacuated zone) in their underwear in the cold is nothing compared to what they deserve (IMO).

    • filister@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      Simple math comes to mind 1200 killed vs 17.000+, that’s about 14 times more.

      Shall we also talk about the displacement of millions of people who were forced out of their homes, are struggling to get food, proper health care, and not having fuel or electricity. Are not able to escape outside Gaza.

      What Hamas did was horrible, but shall we not expect a bit higher standards from Israel?

      Didn’t they actively cause a humanitarian catastrophe affecting 2.4Mln people, half of which are children. Aren’t the Gazans struggling to get the basics like food and water? Do they have proper sanitation, electricity, or fuel? And who’s to blame all of this? Who is bombing their homes, preventing adequate quantities of food and water to reach the civilians, who is blocking international aid, besieging hospitals and have very little respect for human lives? Damn, even your closest ally is telling you that what you are doing is wrong and you still claim that Israel has the high moral ground.

      Yes 7th of October was disastrous but what Israel is doing is nothing less than collective punishment and for any sane person this should be pretty obvious. You don’t need to be a genius to see that one evil doesn’t excuse another evil.

      • SuckMyWang@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m sorry wtf is this logic? One side only killed 1700 so the other is immoral if they kill more than 1700???

        • filister@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          This my friend is called common sense and basic empathy. You know empathy not only towards Israelis, but also towards Palestinians. Because every life matters no matter the religion, colour, ethnicity, etc.

          • SuckMyWang@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Ok so you’re missing my point. If there are two groups of people living side by side and one group decide to murder 10 people from the other group, you’re trying to say it’s immoral if the other group kills more than 10??? Am I getting this insanity correct? We skip over the whole deciding to murder 10 people in the first place and we start our ethical counters only once the retaliating group hits what the original murderers deem as reasonable retribution? If it’s overstepped, now is when the immorality begins? This has the most retarded parts of eye for an eye written all over it. No man has the moral judgment for eye for an eye to be functional. Of course lots of people think they do and then fail to understand why others think they were unreasonable in their retaliation.

            • ???@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Two groups of people living side by side? Way to omit 75 years of suffering in a single stroke.

              Suck my Wang indeed.

              • SuckMyWang@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                My point still stands. As long as retribution must be dished out there will be no peace. Doesn’t matter who started it or how long ago it started. The thing that matters most is that both sides act in good faith today and move towards peace. Your comment only focuses on pay back. I’m not saying these things don’t matter at all simply that they are less important than acting in good faith and moving towards peace

      • AmosBurton@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Displacement? Both northen and suthern israel has evacuated settlements and citys.

        Shall we discuss the financial and economical toll that israel is paying? They will have years of depression after this.

        What Hamas did was horrible, but shall we not expect a bit higher standards from Israel?

        Why would you expect this?

        Didn’t they actively cause a humanitarian catastrophe affecting 2.4Mln people…

        No, supplies have been pooring into gaza. Hamas were redirecting them to the goal of israels destruction(and they are still stealing suppies from civilians. You can find videos of this.). Unrwa, Unicef, and the red cross were supposed to rais the flag of this happening, but insted they pointed the easy finger at israel. This is what lead to the catastrophe, but to this day they take the side of hamas and not the civilians.

        You don’t need to be a genius to see that one evil doesn’t excuse another evil.

        It doesnt excuse it, it calls for it.

        • filister@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Oh, can you please answer the following questions:

          • How many Israelis are currently displaced?
          • How many Israelis lost their houses?
          • How many Israelis are living in makeshift tents or sleeping on the floor of hospitals?
          • How many Israelis don’t have access to drinking water, or electricity or fuel or food?
          • How many Israelis needed to evacuate on foot because of lack of fuel?
          • Can displaced Israelis leave Israel easily?
          • How many times did Israelis evacuate?
          • How many Israelis are actively bombed? And by actively bombed I mean hundreds being killed everyday?
          • How many Israelis don’t have access to proper healthcare?

          And now replace Israelis with Gazans and answer the same questions.

          Why would you expect this?

          Oh so now you are openly admitting that Israel isn’t any better than a terrorist organization. Well done mate!

          Saying that 50-60 trucks a day even 200 can satisfy the needs of 2.4Mln people is very hypocritical of you. Don’t forget that Israel isn’t doing anything to alleviate this situation and quite the opposite trying to make it even worse, punishing again civilian population. Mind you there aren’t any established humanitarian corridors, designated safe places, the north is more or less entirely cut and delivering aid there is next to impossible etc. so how easy would be to distribute this aid.

          And speaking of economical recovery, if you think that Israel would have a hard time to recover tell me how much harder that recovery would be in Gaza. Where in the north according to independent estimates 50-60% of the civilian infrastructure is damaged and 20% in the south.

          And by now it is quite obvious that you are extremely biased. But yes, still thinking that Israel are the only victim here and they are not to blame for anything. Not even for the impunity of violent settlers with which they are persecuting Palestinians in the West bank, or any other well documented human rights violations, which all those “corrupted” human rights watch groups have documented.

          You know when everyone is saying that you are not doing enough to protect civilian population in Gaza, even your closest ally the US is saying this is time to look very good in the mirror and ask yourself whether they are all wrong or perhaps you are in the wrong.

          • DarkGamer@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            How many Israelis are currently displaced?

            About 650,000.

            In the 20th century, approximately 900,000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia. Primarily a consequence of the Israeli Declaration of Independence, the mass movement mainly transpired from 1948 to the early 1970s, with one final exodus of Iranian Jews occurring shortly after the Islamic Revolution in 1979–1980. An estimated 650,000 (72%) of these Jews resettled in Israel.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world

            How many Israelis lost their houses?

            I’m not sure how many homes that 650,000 owned but I suspect a lot of them.


            Your list of grievances are because Palestine is still at war with Israel. To attack a country and not expect reprisals and negative consequences for civilians is pretending the realities of war don’t exist. Peace is the path to ending said grievances.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              That’s a fat lot of conflation.

              And a whopper of a revisionist history. Israel has been blockading Gaza for nearly 2 decades now. That is an act of war. You don’t get to keep doing that and complain that the other country punched you.

              And war does not justify war crimes. It’s literally in the name.

            • ???@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Palestine is still at war with Israel.

              I am now 110% convinced you’re just a troll who spouts incorrect information so that people spend ages educating you on just how dumb and wrong your statements are. A total waste of time.

          • AmosBurton@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            1 year ago

            I am saying that israel values its citizens lives, and its enemy does not. With this fact in mind, you cannot compare casualties.

            • ???@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              You said supplies were pouring into Gaza. This is an obvious lie.

              Why do you lie?

              • AmosBurton@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                Oh? So where did all the supplies for their tunnels come from? Where did all the rockets and guns come from? Where were they getting water, electricity and gasoline for the past 17 years?

                • ???@lemmy.worldOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  We know for a fact that humanitarian aid going into Gaza is not enough. It’s not pouring in. That’s a lie and you have nothing to prove it. A militant group stockpiling supplies for itself has nothing to do with 2.3mil starving people.

                  But to answer your question referring the 17 last years, since maybe you missed the memo, but apparently Israel and Bibi are those who funded Hamas.

                  Otherwise, Israel denied hospitals and dying patients electricity, bombed their solar panels, blew up their infrastructure including access to oxygen.

                  No, supplies are not pouring into Gaza, just lies pouring our of your mouth.

        • ???@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          It doesn’t excuse it, it calls for it.

          Thanks, Hitler.

    • e_mc2@feddit.nlB
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Atrocities are perpetrated on both sides. That doesn’t excuse either of them nor does it justify committing them.

      • AmosBurton@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        1 year ago

        Correct, but if one side fights dirty, the other side has every right to stupe down to that level.

        • freddy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          That is not true, Israel is an state bound by international law, it must respect human rights, can not do this to anyone.

          Hamas is not an state, can be considered a criminal organization and Israel state can fight it inside law limits. No state can, should not (in theory) carpet bombing civilians, killing thounsands of them, including children, in order to kill some hundreds of criminals.

          Israel is an occupying state, palestinians has the right to rise against the Israel state.

          And finally, why are IDF soldiers killing palestinians in Cisjordania?, Hamas is not there, the attacks did not not come from that place.

          • AmosBurton@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            Hamas is the governing body in gaza and must also be bound by international law. Saying they are a criminal organization and detaching them from gaza and its residents is the real crime which will lead to this cycle never ending.

            They must be held accountable for their actions and the actions of their elected leaders.

            Israel has been craying out about gaza’s endles rain of missiles since before they left in 05’.

            And finally, why are IDF soldiers killing palestinians in Cisjordania?, Hamas is not there, the attacks did not not come from that place.

            The initial attack did not come from there, yes. However since the October 7th atempted genocide, attacks on security and military fources in the area have risen. And with the “zero tolerance” in the wake of the 7th, i am not surprised Palestinians are getting killed.

            • freddy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              “Hamas is the governing body in gaza and must also be bound by international law.” Yes, they should be arrested and put under trail, like germans generals and officers after WWII, some of them were hanged. To do that there are other ways.

              “They must be held accountable for their actions and the actions of their elected leaders.” who are they? even children? Their leaders are in other places, like Qatar, why not carpet bombing there?

            • ???@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Hamas has been more receptive of calls to adhere to humanitarian and international law than Israel is doing. In fact, Israel is committing the vast majority of these crimes now and on a much larger population of people.

              Hamas were always open to a prisoner swap and a ceasefire. Israel is the one refusing to uphold UN resolutions.

              So, we can safely conclude that Israel is genocidal and needs to go fuck itself and stop its human rights violations. They betrayed the ceasefire, they kept bombing and killing civilians to the last second before it started, several people in Gaza were killed by Israel during the truce and Hamas still held on and kept the ceasefire going.

              Israel is the one spinning that wheel.

              Israel birthed Hamas from their apartheid and oppression and will birth many more angry militant groups until they give Palestinians decency and human rights. There are no two ways about it. Anyone who knows jackshit about un-radicalizing a population knows too full well that bombing them create more radicalization (the Hydra effect)

        • ???@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Correct, but if one side fights dirty, the other side has every right to stupe down to that level.

          Ah so you mean to say October 7th was justified then.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      No.

      Just no.

      This reasoning is literally the kind of stuff we hanged Nazis for. Collective punishment is a war crime. Leave the civilians alone.