Three bodies on the lower track, one body on the upper track. Which one do you hit?
I got in trouble when I said “the bakes”. Then the teacher said "there’s no brakes. So I said “yes there is. The federal railroad administration would not saction a train to be operational on their tracks without safety proceedures.”
in this scenario the brakes of the trolley are assumed to have failed. i do understand your concern and the federal railroad administration WILL be hearing about this, and the railroad WILL be held liable for any deaths you incur, but in the present moment you have more immediate problems.
A trolley would be an intercity transportation system, and thus the only place it would have reason to have a switch would be at the depot yard, which would also have other workers there at all working hours. Some would even be 24/7.
Furthermore, a trolley wouldn’t have the same problem a train would, in that it CAN stop on a dime. See my whole thing when this was a train, and I’m standing at the switch, was that I know there would be a posted emergancy number that reaches dispatch directly. THIS is the number you need to call in the event of an emergancy. Not the cops. Not the train company. You need the emergancy number posted at every switch and railroad crossing. They are in communication with the train 24/7, and can stop a train faster. Not instantly, but as fast to instantly as possible within the limitations of momentum.
Whereas a trolley would not have these issues. They travel at city speeds at a drastic fraction of the weight. They can stop closer to the reaction time a bus would. And they’d still have brakes, although the mandating body on this would vary from state to state, with Ohio being the Ohio Highway Department of Transportation.
So at the depot yard they wouldn’t even be traveling at city speeds. They’d be going more like 5mph like you would in a parting lot, vs a road.
But the premise of the trolley problem already has some element of sabotage considering there’s people tied up on the track. I’d imagine if they would do that, they’d also break the trolley brakes. And that the villain likely would have done this at a depot yard because of what you said.
I mean, you’re pretty knowledgeable about this; if you, for whatever reason, and others, decided to tie people down at the depot and incapacitate the workers, surely you with your knowledge and expertise could find a way to disable the brakes and have the trolley go as fast as possible, right?
That’s a lot of planning, and effort though. Essentially you’re saying this villain, which would realistically need to be a team effort, would need to subdue, or more realistically kill every depot worker at the same time so that no calls for help to local authorities can go out. Now maybe the 4 tied up people ARE depot workers. That would be plausible if he only subdued them.
Then, once there is no opposition to hinder his plans to modify the trains brake lines, you would have to know ahead of time which model this trolley is. A lot of newer models have a feature where the brakeline is technically always active, just not engaged. Once you clip the brakes, it would snap shut. So right off the bat, you need to make sure it’s an older model. Which, would be older then about 20 years old. I know that sounds like you wouldn’t find any that old, but you’d be surprised. 20 year old rail system is actually very modern. In Cleveland we use a light rail system. It’s not a true trolley, but it’s similar. The ones on our tracks were first made operational in the 1960s. BUT! Ours are based on electricity which hang from a power supply line that runs above the track. So if you were to cut that, yes you’d cut the brake, but you’d also cut the ability to drive. And since our depot yard isn’t near any hills, you’d just sit there.
Essentially what you’re suggesting at that point, is a terrorist attack, which even if you did the months/years of planning to make everything carry out in oceans 11 style heist, you’re still talking about killing 10-40 people to set up a situation where the sole purpose is to endanger either 1 or 3 peoples lives. All just to make one person feel guilty for “killing”.
And I’m not even going to ATTEMPT to go into how even after all that, the psychological “victim” may not even give a shit, so the whole thing was for nothing.
You could do 10-40 people. The trolley problem isn’t about it being specifically 1-3 people.
So, instead of a runaway trolley, what if the villain themselves was inside driving it towards either 10 people or 30 people? Of course with a team helping them execute this thing. Wouldn’t it be easier if someone was driving the trolley instead of it being empty?
Essentially what you’re suggesting at that point, is a terrorist attack
Well duh, but the trolley problem was never about the ethics of who orchestrated the attack, but rather whoever made it on time to the track switch. Apathy still shows something.
That said, you’d be a great consult of DC ever wanted to make a Batman comic in which the Joker executes the plans for a Trolley Problem, as it’s definitely something he’d do to Batman. He’d definitely be the time to research trolleys, has a gang to help him do what you said, and would have no qualms driving the trolley himself. Plus could easily take place in the 60s to 80s.
Three bodies on the lower track, one body on the upper track. Which one do you hit?
I got in trouble when I said “the bakes”. Then the teacher said "there’s no brakes. So I said “yes there is. The federal railroad administration would not saction a train to be operational on their tracks without safety proceedures.”
Not my fault I grew up loving trains…
in this scenario the brakes of the trolley are assumed to have failed. i do understand your concern and the federal railroad administration WILL be hearing about this, and the railroad WILL be held liable for any deaths you incur, but in the present moment you have more immediate problems.
But it’s a trolley, not a train
A trolley would be an intercity transportation system, and thus the only place it would have reason to have a switch would be at the depot yard, which would also have other workers there at all working hours. Some would even be 24/7.
Furthermore, a trolley wouldn’t have the same problem a train would, in that it CAN stop on a dime. See my whole thing when this was a train, and I’m standing at the switch, was that I know there would be a posted emergancy number that reaches dispatch directly. THIS is the number you need to call in the event of an emergancy. Not the cops. Not the train company. You need the emergancy number posted at every switch and railroad crossing. They are in communication with the train 24/7, and can stop a train faster. Not instantly, but as fast to instantly as possible within the limitations of momentum.
Whereas a trolley would not have these issues. They travel at city speeds at a drastic fraction of the weight. They can stop closer to the reaction time a bus would. And they’d still have brakes, although the mandating body on this would vary from state to state, with Ohio being the Ohio Highway Department of Transportation.
So at the depot yard they wouldn’t even be traveling at city speeds. They’d be going more like 5mph like you would in a parting lot, vs a road.
But the premise of the trolley problem already has some element of sabotage considering there’s people tied up on the track. I’d imagine if they would do that, they’d also break the trolley brakes. And that the villain likely would have done this at a depot yard because of what you said.
I mean, you’re pretty knowledgeable about this; if you, for whatever reason, and others, decided to tie people down at the depot and incapacitate the workers, surely you with your knowledge and expertise could find a way to disable the brakes and have the trolley go as fast as possible, right?
That’s a lot of planning, and effort though. Essentially you’re saying this villain, which would realistically need to be a team effort, would need to subdue, or more realistically kill every depot worker at the same time so that no calls for help to local authorities can go out. Now maybe the 4 tied up people ARE depot workers. That would be plausible if he only subdued them.
Then, once there is no opposition to hinder his plans to modify the trains brake lines, you would have to know ahead of time which model this trolley is. A lot of newer models have a feature where the brakeline is technically always active, just not engaged. Once you clip the brakes, it would snap shut. So right off the bat, you need to make sure it’s an older model. Which, would be older then about 20 years old. I know that sounds like you wouldn’t find any that old, but you’d be surprised. 20 year old rail system is actually very modern. In Cleveland we use a light rail system. It’s not a true trolley, but it’s similar. The ones on our tracks were first made operational in the 1960s. BUT! Ours are based on electricity which hang from a power supply line that runs above the track. So if you were to cut that, yes you’d cut the brake, but you’d also cut the ability to drive. And since our depot yard isn’t near any hills, you’d just sit there.
Essentially what you’re suggesting at that point, is a terrorist attack, which even if you did the months/years of planning to make everything carry out in oceans 11 style heist, you’re still talking about killing 10-40 people to set up a situation where the sole purpose is to endanger either 1 or 3 peoples lives. All just to make one person feel guilty for “killing”.
And I’m not even going to ATTEMPT to go into how even after all that, the psychological “victim” may not even give a shit, so the whole thing was for nothing.
Holy shit my boy just destroyed and anhilated a philosophical thought experiment just going through transit regulation, what a madlad
After this:
well, you beat the trolley problem !
You could do 10-40 people. The trolley problem isn’t about it being specifically 1-3 people.
So, instead of a runaway trolley, what if the villain themselves was inside driving it towards either 10 people or 30 people? Of course with a team helping them execute this thing. Wouldn’t it be easier if someone was driving the trolley instead of it being empty?
Well duh, but the trolley problem was never about the ethics of who orchestrated the attack, but rather whoever made it on time to the track switch. Apathy still shows something.
That said, you’d be a great consult of DC ever wanted to make a Batman comic in which the Joker executes the plans for a Trolley Problem, as it’s definitely something he’d do to Batman. He’d definitely be the time to research trolleys, has a gang to help him do what you said, and would have no qualms driving the trolley himself. Plus could easily take place in the 60s to 80s.