The share of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents who believe that President Joe Biden’s 2020 election win was not legitimate has ticked back up, according to a new CNN poll fielded throughout July. All told, 69% of Republicans and Republican-leaners say Biden’s win was not legitimate, up from 63% earlier this year and through last fall, even as there is no evidence of election fraud that would have altered the outcome of the contest.
As a conservative, this is mind boggling to me. In my head I think it’s just a far right crazy conspiracy theory, but between this and the huge amount of support trump gets, I’m just baffled. I’m on the west coast, and none of my friends or family still support Trump or are election deniers.
Maybe the mid west republicans are just 100% trumpers? It’s wild.
MAGA is basically like a religion out here. They avoid any information that contradicts their belief system and gravitate towards media that reaffirms it. The constant drumbeat of whataboutism coming from trump, fox news, AM radio, etc really has poisoned their brains. Support of trump, embrace of his lies, and hatred of his “enemies”, has become their entire identity.
Back when Trump was President, a friend of mine (who’s a Trump supporter) was arguing with me about whether or not Trump said something.
I did what I always did and checked Google. I quickly found a video of Trump saying the thing and sent it to my friend. He replied that it was fake news.
My friend wasn’t claiming that the video was actually faked or taken out of context. Instead, he was saying that it was fake news because it was hosted on CNN’s servers. He didn’t care what the content was, just whether it was on a right wing outlet’s server or not.
You could have Trump come out and say it to him directly and he wouldn’t believe it anyways. Your friend chooses to believe what they believe the way a fanatic believes in their delusions. It only serves to reaffirm their belief structure, and nothing else. If Trump pulled a 180 tomorrow, these people would simply claim that he has been brainwashed or that he’s a paid imposter, or anything else.
In light of seeing your fellow conservatives move farther right (and thus, kinda push the definition of the body of conservative beliefs farther right), on what grounds do you still identify as conservative? What does being a conservative mean to you?
I don’t really agree with this. The republican party shifting doesn’t mean the ideals of conservative ideology changes.
On the other side of the coin, just because democrats are starting to become more socialist, does that mean that liberal ideologies are changing?
I’m still a conservative because I believe in tradition, I believe in small government and a country that abides by the constitution is the best way to govern. I believe in the free market and put more emphasis on a states individuality rather than having a large federal government.
The “other side of the coin” in this instance is a fiction. The Democratic Party is in no meaningful sense of the word becoming “socialist”.
They have self proclaimed socialists in office, and I have a self proclaimed communist on my city council.
You’re saying that socialists in this country are fiction because they don’t know about it? I’m confused your stance.
They’re saying that, as a party, it’s absurd to think the democratic party is becoming more socialist. For decades now, it has been a big tent party of not-crazy and stupid assholes. If anything, it moved startlingly rightwards for years as it absorbed more and more not-crazy and stupid assholes from the other side. Every now and then, there is a punctuated moment where single elements of single policies might represent a brief skip leftwards and here and there you have examples of individual members claiming to be socialist, communist, fucking whatever. But it’s foolish to think that’s representative of the party as a whole.
I’ll need any source you can provide to back what you’re saying up. Here is a list of socialists in office, and as you can see, there are more now than any point in history in the U.S.
As a non-american, the idea that the Democrats are becoming more socialist is hilarious. At best, they’re getting closer to the centre (from the right). Lemme know when they start proposing an end to health profiteering and stronger union protections :P
This is not a hostile comment, hats off to you for being able to talk openly about your ideas and hear differening opinions 🎩
Democracies around the world really need more of that.
And socialist countries are far right to communist countries, that’s why we don’t compare our political parties internationally.
There are more socialists currently representing people from the democratic party than ever before, and the party is moving more socialist, those are facts. Are you arguing against that?
I think many are simply arguing against your unconventional use of the term “socialist” to describe politicians who are definitely not socialist.
Well it seems that they have a problem with the democratic party incorrectly using the term socialist. They have been for awhile, they call scandinavian countries socialist when they’re not at all. If some democrats claim they’re socialists, and run on a socialist platform, I’ll call them socialist.
I suspect conservative people like yourself no longer identifying as Republican may be a factor.
I have a couple former republican friends who are still very conservative, but aren’t trumpers and voted libertarian or independent last election.
They do still have a bit of distrust around Jan 6th and criminal allegations because, well, they avoid looking into them deeper, so don’t know who to trust. But they’re not foaming at the mouth.
They love him in the southeast. I’m in VA which is purple and not even in a rural area, and he has tons of support here.
I was behind a truck the other day with a decal covering the back window stating the following:
“Me and my homies would have been stacking bodies by now. – George Washington”
They’re fucking crazy and they’re everywhere around here. It makes my blood boil.
Even just north of y’all in Western MD where I recently vacated from, there are plenty of nutters. MD is seen as a pretty blue state but that’s mostly just Baltimore and Montgomery County balancing out the crazy in the rest of the state. The more rural parts of the state are still full to the brim of your typical Trump wackos.
I am pretty liberal, but I have a-lot of family members who are republican and live in the midwest and they feel like they’re in the same boat as you.
I do have to wonder where he gets all his support.
He gets his support from the belts. Bible Belt and Rust Belt.
The Bible Belt I can believe, though I am not sure about the Rust Belt. It may have been true in 2016, but I think the 2020 election paints a different picture.
When I think of the Rust Belt, I think of places like Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. Of those cities, it seems only Missouri is hardcore republican (despite St. Louis’s and Kansas City’s best efforts). Michigan seems to have swung pretty left (though there are definitely still red areas), Pennsylvania voted blue and Wisconsin is on the verge of undoing a-lot of republican gerrymandering. Ohio looks like a red-leaning mixed bag, but it doesn’t strike me as a republican bastion.
Granted, most of these are major battleground states with both parties in almost equal numbers, but their conservative populations don’t seem to be anymore Trump-oriented than other states.
I live in NY as does my father. He was a die hard Trump supporter until a few months ago when he switched to DeSantis - though he might have switched back to Trump. I try not to talk politics with him.
As recently as last year, he was telling me that the Republicans were going to impeach and remove Biden and Kamala and install Trump as President again. I pointed out that the House could definitely impeach, but removal would take two thirds of the Senate - a number the Republicans couldn’t possibly reach. (This was before the midterms.) My father responded that the Democrats would vote along with the Republicans.
Yes, my father honestly believed that the Democrats would decide to ditch a Democratic President and Vice President so that Trump could come back to power. He was willing to make a bet that this would happen. I didn’t take the bet only because I knew he’d either deny ever making the bet or would try to gaslight me what the bet actually was about.
It’s not just a mid-west thing. I’m in the PNW and I’ve yet to meet a Never Trumper republican.
Yep, they’re still flying Trump flags and hanging Trump signs in the areas of Oregon outside the larger cities.
Is that the only metric?
I voted for him in '16, same with my pa. Does someone have to be a ‘never trumper’ to be reasonable? I’m in the PNW too, I’ve seen a handful of Trump Trucks, but despite being from a more rural area (you know there are a lot of conservative pockets in the PNW), there isn’t this widespread support of Trump, from what I’ve seen.
You must not get out much. Spend any amount of time in WA-3 and you’ll see car dealerships running still running “TRUMP 2020, FUCK INSLEE” on their signs, tons of FJB flags flying from pickups, and knock-off Trump apparel in stores.
I’m pretty confident I’m very well traveled around the state, much more than the average Washingtonian.
Oooooh so you mean I must not be well traveled in this specific district you’re talking about? Yeah, not that much, but the times I have traveled down that way to portland, the coast or other areas out there is what I was talking about seeing some Trump Trucks.
I do love that sign though, driving down I5 about inslee, that cracks me up every time.
I’m glad you’re easily entertained. That’s not the specific sign I was referring to, though, but thank you for adding additional examples, thus strengthening my point.
I don’t get why you’re acting like this is a fight you need to win. I said I’m from rural WA and don’t see many Trump Trucks. That’s a fact. You then told me that means I don’t get out much? Which is an absurd conclusion based on one sentence of communication.
I didn’t say there weren’t any trump supporters, look back at my first comment. What I said is it’s baffling to me because that trumper culture isn’t prevelant out here, you’re here saying ‘well if you go to this specific district, in this area, there’s this sign at this dealership’ doesn’t mean there’s a big trump culture in washington.
Sorry for only providing three quick examples instead of listing off everything I see across the PNW daily. Should I keep notes and send you weekly updates so as to prove my point?
If there’s a big trump culture, where are the rallies out here? Where are the protests? Trumpers are known for protesting liberal areas they don’t like, where are the protests in bellingham regarding drag events at schools?
You’ve listed one area where you see some Trump trucks and signs. That doesn’t prove that there’s a big trump culture out here.There’s 33% of Washington adults that call themselves republicans, where is the Trump culture that you’re talking about? A couple signs? come on man. Prove your point or move on, don’t get pedantic saying ‘hey, go to this city in this road and on fridays there’s a trump truck by a trump sign. If you wait for the new moon, you might see two trump trucks!’
Maybe now. The Republicans in my family left the party after 2016. Granted, they’re still on my shit list for voting against LGBT stuff but at least they’ve recognized the error of their ways.
What anti-lgbt stuff did they vote against?
They voted for the Party that hates gay people. That’s enough for me.
Hahah, see how quickly you back down from your comment?
‘well, I lied before, but they might as well have!! Therefore, SHITLIST!’
Go ahead, tell me who they voted for that they’re on your shit list because they vote differently than you do.
I didn’t back down. They voted for Trump in 2016. The GOP platform is explicitly anti gay. Had my step dad voted for Trump in 2020 he wouldn’t be invited to my gay wedding because Republicans want to overturn Obergafell.
I don’t care who you vote for as long as they support gay rights.
I didn’t lie. You just can’t read.
I’m a single issue voter and that issue is queer rights.
You did. You literally said your parents are on your shit list because they voted against lgbt policies. Then I asked about those policies, and you said that they actually didn’t do that…?
Trump was the first pro-gay marriage president that had ever been elected.
Do you agree with every single policy every single democrat has ever discussed?
“I don’t care who you vote for as long as it’s someone who agrees with me”
My bad, you didn’t say “they’re still on my shit list for voting against LGBT stuff”?
And anyone that doesn’t think exactly like you and vote exactly like you is on your shit list?
Lol, it’s cute you think queer rights is just a simple disagreement.
I’m sure you agree with every single conservative plank when you vote.
Not sure what your “gotcha” is here. I had family who voted for him. They opened their eyes to the bs.
If someone votes for politicians with anti-queer policies then they need to deal with the consequences just like the rest of us do.
I don’t have to associate with anyone and there isn’t a rational argument against queer human rights.
Let’s say you were my sibling and you plan on voting for Trump (or whoever the GOP nom will be). If you did then you wouldn’t get an invite to my wedding. It’s that simple. You had shown you don’t support gay rights. Once you, as my sibling, abandon family for politics then you cut out.
What rights specifically are you talking about?
Nope, actually, I disagree on a lot of conservative views.
You said they voted against lgbt policies and that’s why they’re on your shit list, but there’s not one lgbt policy you can name they voted against
So you’re for repercussions against people that don’t vote in line with you?
Of course, you have freedom of association listed out in our constitutional rights. What human rights do I, an asian male, have that queers don’t? My girlfriend is queer, so I really want to know what human rights she does not have so I can fight for her.
Oh, so an individual candidate’s views doesn’t matter, purely the party? Do you know anyone who voted for Obama in 08? They were voting for a man that was against gay marriage, you better cut them off. As I mentioned before, and you ignored, Trump is the first president to come into office being pro-gay marriage.
Most midwest Republicans are actually populists, and populism is step one on the track to fascism. They have been used and abused by large corporations killing off local economies and greater macroeconomic forces which have determined that their labor is no longer worth a living wage. It’s quite sad actually, but at this point the damage has been done. There’s nothing left for reasonable people to do but get out.
the conservative party is gone. What’s left is a theocratic loony bid. Anyone voting for that shit is completely out of the loop or doesn’t care about the negative long term consequences to their continued science and data denial and constant conspiracy theory horseshit.