Intrusive thoughts are terrifying. It’s a testament to our collective willpower that we haven’t horrifically murdered each other.
Also, I’m really glad the phrase “intrusive thoughts” came along. It made the whole thing a lot easier to talk about.
Collective willpower? Or centuries worth of social contract? Humans are kind of just animals who can predict the future by writing down the past.
I’ve had some pretty nasty intrusive thoughts. I’d like to believe it’s more than just social conditioning that kept them under wraps. But maybe.
There was the concept of “devil told me to do it”
That’s just “I wanted to do it.” but dressed up in “it’s not socially acceptable to want that.”
I would like to believe that despite it is hard for most people not to have intrusive thoughts, it is much easier not to act on them.
I just learned their name thanks to your comment.
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I’m sorry if this sounds callous but I utterly disregard your notion with predjudice.
They aren’t intrusive thoughts, they’re just your thoughts, stop being afraid of thinking.
Now if you lack impulse control, then we have a problem.
Edit: We need a new term for the phobia of imagination and thought. I suggest Thinkophobia.
Not all thoughts are consciously summoned, wanted, or pleasant. The term intrusive thoughts is a good way to describe those thoughts we find unpleasant. Yes, they are natural and normal, and often how we grapple with and process experiences, but that doesn’t make them unobtrusive.
Additionally, many people have intrusive recollections of upsetting events from the past. Intrusive thoughts is a good descriptor that helps avoid over using terms like flashbacks or PTSD.
Clarifying such things as intrusive helps destigmatize these thoughts for people who have them and feel the weight of social expectations, like new parents as in the comic. Feeling guilty about having these thoughts isn’t healthy, and properly describing them as unwanted helps people process them. I don’t see what is particularly objectionable or hard to understand about the term and why being more specific in the description of one thoughts is off-putting to you.
Not all thoughts are consciously summoned, wanted, or pleasant. The term intrusive thoughts is a good way to describe those thoughts we find unpleasant.
I am not emotionally disturbed by my ‘intrusive thoughts’ because they have as much bearing on reality as whether I like the smell of burnt toast. They are also my thoughts, I take full ownership of them, they aren’t something that happens to me they’re something I do.
Clarifying such things as intrusive helps destigmatize these thoughts for people who have them and feel the weight of social expectations
I don’t see what is particularly objectionable or hard to understand about the term and why being more specific in the description of one thoughts is off-putting to you.
I’m disheartened by the fact that people feel they need to thought police themselves for the benefit of a society that will never engage with those figments of their imaginations.
That is legitimately depressing and I feel sorry for those people. I wish them the best in developing more significant and functional mental fortitude. Sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn’t my intention.
Edit: downvotes for caring, love the hypocrisy of this place sometimes.
Everyone is different, and life is path dependent. Some people don’t struggle with difficult memories, and others have simply not lived an unpleasant enough life to have accrued the emotional scars.
However, being blatantly brusque in your description of others followed by “sorry if I offended” is the epitome of ringing hollow. At least be honest; you don’t care if you offended others.
I wasn’t being disingenuous and I’m sorry the way I express myself makes you feel that way.
I don’t suffer their affliction, I have no personal experience with their incapacities. I don’t let my pain define me, I own my thoughts, and even when I don’t like the things I think, they are mine alone to think about.
I honestly and genuinely wish anyone who is afflicted by their own thoughts can access the tools and skills they need to improve their mental fortitude and improve their lives by learning to tolerate themselves.
If you disagree with that then you have bigger issues than intrusive thoughts.
I recognize that my intrusive thoughts are my own, but this term existing is helpful because: 1) some people incorrectly believe that thoughts imply a desired outcome, and this term helps explain and describe that this isn’t always the case and 2) it’s a meaningful and useful way of categorizing these types of thoughts for the purposes of psychology, psychiatry, understanding ourselves better, etc.
In cases like severe OCD, classifying intrusive thoughts as such could help someone understand and cope with disturbing thoughts and develop subsequent coping mechanisms. Not everyone’s the same and some terms can be helpful.
I don’t disagree with any of that. But if someone wants to take steps to not being afflicted by their own thoughts you might think it appropriate to listen to those with the experience and skill to not be afflicted by their own thoughts.
No one here has any interest in changing their thinking to improve their capacity to enjoy life, they all want to bitch that I have no idea what I’m talking about, despite apparently being the only one here with a legitimate capacity to not be disturbed by my own internal monologue, and wallow in their shared failure to have emotional control over themselves.
You’re not being downvoted for “caring”, you’re being downvoted for sounding like condescending, pompous arse. If you’re not purposefully trying to be a dick, you might want to try developing your empathy skills. And ditch the non-apologies, they just make you seem even more disingenuous.
I am a condescending pompous arse, an ego earned by being correct. I’m empathetic, but I’m not sympathetic to those who would ignore a way of thinking that is not afflicted by the same weakness as their own. And my apologies are entirely genuine and your disbelief has no bearing on that reality it just makes you look more the fool you choose to be if a little pomposity is all that’s required to keep you from knowledge and comprehension.
there’s only one person looking the fool around here.
I wish it were so few.
Can you even hear yourself?! Jesus Christ. I’ll leave you to reveal in your misplaced superiority complex, but fyi non apologies aren’t subjective and yours are a textbook case. It’s not the most pressing lesson you need to learn, but if you’re going to go through life being such an arse you should at least know how to apologise properly.
For it to be a complex my inference has to be incorrect and come from a place of lacking superiority. And yet not a single point I’ve made has been refuted. No, I’m just superior and have the ego to acknowledge that and the literary capacity to do it with airs.
You’ve also mistaken being empathetic with sympathetic and I’ve explained why I’m not the latter in several other messages including the one you just replied to. How can I not feel superior when every respondant has the reading comprehension of a 6 year old.
No thoughts are “your own.”
You are owned by your thoughts.
If you believe that try not having them.
You can’t not have them. Because they have you. They are in control.
You lack an adequate understanding of the concept of belligerence.
You can’t not have them because they are you.
I think a good term for what you defined in your edit might be “intrusive thoughts”
If everyone has them it’s not a phobia, it’s a condition of consciousness. The phobia is being irrationally afraid of your perfectly normal condition. Which if you think you’re own thoughts are intruding on you, you may have.
May I ask what expertise you have on this that makes you know more than doctors and psychologists who use the term intrusive thoughts, and specifically use that term to diagnose people with mental illness or neuro-divergence? Or are you just pontificating to feel smarter than everyone else? We don’t need a new word for something everyone (except you) clearly already understands and uses properly.
I understand it perfectly, this is a philosophical perspective not a medical one. My understanding of the term as used in medicine does not differ from yours.
The question is how does that change what a phobia is? Are you not aware how phobias work and are defined as according to medical literature? My statement is correct. If you have an issue with any of my other statements, reply to them directly.
They are intrusive thoughts, because that’s the phrase that was coined to describe these types of thoughts. Sometimes we come up with specific phrases in order to describe more specific concepts.
Right, nuance and context are infinitely important. Now what’s the functional difference between the two? Because if none exists that can be implemented by the individual then the nuanced difference between the types of thoughts becomes irrelevant to how one handles them.
I am not emotionally affected by my ‘intrusive thoughts’ because they have as much bearing on reality as whether I like the smell of burnt toast.
The functional difference is:
Thoughts == benign shit passing through your brain that cause no personal discomfort.
Obtrusive thoughts == shit that intrudes on your regular internal monologue and causes discomfort or fixation.
It’s fine to have such thoughts, and it’s also fine to acknowledge that you don’t want them. Like I’m trying to get on with my day, but now my brain is playing a vivid horror show and I just want to finish my TPS report, not walk through every moment of myself shattering Steve’s skull with the fire axe because he can’t figure out how to use the collate function on the printer.
Sure, you can embrace that shit as fictional, but it’s distracting in the moment.
Sure, but handling an ‘intrusive thought’ is functionally no different to how you handle any other thought.
I say ‘pink elephants’ you’re going to fixate for a bit, how that affects you emotionally won’t change that functionally for you.
I guess there are degrees of intrusive thoughts, because no, it’s not really the same. ‘Don’t think about the elephant’ causes a benign and very fleeting fixation.
Intrusive thoughts are things that linger, often in a disturbing way, long after you want them gone. They interfere with your ability to focus.
The elephant thing is like a musical ear worm whereas intrusive thoughts can be like someone blaring industrial music in your ears. I’m not explaining this well, but it’s on another level.
I’m going to copy and paste my reply from another comment thread because it better explains my philosophical stance.
I am not emotionally disturbed by my ‘intrusive thoughts’ because they have as much bearing on reality as whether I like the smell of burnt toast. They are also my thoughts, I take full ownership of them, they aren’t something that happens to me they’re something I do.
I don’t suffer their affliction, I have no personal experience with their incapacities. I don’t let my pain define me, I own my thoughts, and even when I don’t like the things I think, they are mine alone to think about.
I honestly and genuinely wish anyone who is afflicted by their own thoughts can access the tools and skills they need to improve their mental fortitude and improve their lives by learning to tolerate themselves.
Thoughts = literally any thought
Intrusive thoughts = the type of thoughts we don’t particularly want to think because they make us uncomfortable, but they intrude into our stream of consciousness either way.
It’s called being descriptive, and it lets people know exactly what kind of thought you’re referring to by adding a simple adjective before the word.
My stream of consciousness picks things up, not has things fall into it.
It’s a matter of perspective.
what you’re failing to pick up on is that no one cares about how you handle your thoughts and you can stop talking about yourself as if we should all aspire to think the way you do. this thread has largely been about the shared experience of having what we call intrusive thoughts and you coming here and trying to hijack that by telling us we are doing it wrong was never going to be well received.
Cool story, glad your shared experiences are the only valid ones because it involves suffering.
There absolutely are intrusive thoughts. Two examples:
Once in a long while, I’ll be talking to a black person and I’ll think of the N-word. It will just pop into my head for a split second and I’ll think “oh my god, no!” and it will be gone. I’ve never said that word out loud, I’ve never thought of anyone black that way, and I certainly don’t want to think of anyone that way. It’s not a thought I meant to have or even a thought that would ever represent how I felt. It isn’t even a thought that is pointed with malice at the person I was talking to. It’s literally just “N-word” and it’s gone. It’s purely unconscious and intrusive racism that I think is just part of being white.
Every so often, I’ll be talking to a couple I know and imagine them fucking. Just for a split second again. I don’t want to imagine them fucking. It’s not titillating to me. I don’t get a rise out of it. I don’t fantasize about it later. But just for a moment, I imagine what it would be like if my perceptive versions of them fucked. We won’t even be talking about anything remotely sexual. But sex is part of the human condition and sometimes we have unconscious, intrusive thoughts about sex.
I don’t think either of these will lead me to murder. In fact, in general, I don’t have violent thoughts, not even intrusive ones. But it could lead me to other atrocious behavior if I dwell on those thoughts and if I let them become more than momentarily intrusive. It’s not being afraid of thinking them, it’s not wanting to think of them and doing my best to will any such thoughts that stray out of my head as quickly as I can. Because those thoughts are not thoughts I want to have about people. I don’t care if I don’t act on them either. I don’t want to think that about any black people I ever encounter in my life. I don’t want to think that about any couples who I know. But sometimes those thoughts just pop into my head and I can’t help it. But I can help moving past them as fast as I possibly can so they don’t end up accumulating and turning me into a person I don’t want to be.
It’s not part of being white anymore than dropping a baby out of a window. It’s just your brain telling you what not to do, because you know not to use that term, on account of it being rude and offensive.
It’s such a taboo term that you’d literally never say it, it’s more like internal Tourettes. I suspect this type of intrusive thought is least vaguely related to the phenomenon of cute aggression. Like, intrusive thoughts of The Thing You Absolutely Must Not Do.
It’s sad that you would assume you have some essential racist nature - I don’t know you, but being born white is not a form of original sin, it’s an arbitrary identity category and you’re most likely a decent person.
That’s called having a normal and functioning think box, comes will all the usual bits of imagination just like every other human.
“Bits of imagination” you don’t want to have = intrusive thoughts.
We don’t always get what we want, that’s life. It’s how you handle the things you don’t control that defines you.
What does that have to do with what I said or your claim that there are no such things as intrusive thoughts?
How you handle intrusive thoughts is no different to handling any other thought you have, wanted or unwanted, good or bad, if you are going to get it anyway and you can’t change the fact they exist how does defining them otherwise in the context of understanding how to not let them affect you provide any benefit?
I would argue that my way of thinking must be correct for this task because I am obviously not afflicted in the same way by my thoughts that I feel I need to define the bad subconscious ones as ‘intrusive’. They haven’t intruded on my consciousness, my consciousness found them.
It’s a perspective that removes a significant amount of emotional power from ‘intrusive thoughts’.
Intrusive thoughts are a big part of OCD.
And they are unwanted thoughts that a person doesn’t want to have. That’s why doctors call them “intrusive thoughts.”
Intrusive thoughts are a big part of OCD. And they call them “intrusive thoughts.”
Maybe it’s OCD?
These kind of thoughts are normal, but can develope into a subform of ocd called pure-o ocd
If intrusive thoughts legitimately affect their capacity to function then yes that would be a disorder, but not due to having them, only due to how they handle them differently from those that don’t have their capacity to function affected.
Any relation to OCD is outside of my experience.
The point is that intrusive thoughts are real.
And my point is that yes, they are real, they are also a figment of our imagination.
We don’t imagine them. They imagine us.
We are the result of them. We are the effluence of thoughts.
I don’t think this person believes that people are actively making up intrusive thoughts or talking about something that doesn’t happen. It seems like they’re saying that thoughts, any thoughts, are our imagination, intrusive or otherwise.
I imagine you believe that.
Maybe stop trying to analyse these things or put Buddhism into a box too yeah?
our brains run simulations of awful situations all the time as a diagnostic self-test system. The fact that we recoil in revulsion from destructive intrusive thoughts is a sign that we are still at least nominally sane. Those who yearn for peace prepare for war. Likewise, those who care for their loved ones prepare to face terrible events that might befall them.
“why yes indeed brain, it would fucking suck if i jumped off this cliff, thank you for verifying that even if i had no plans of doing so anyways…”
I’m the guy who thinks it would be great… for 3 seconds anyway.
It would be great for a few seconds and then it wouldn’t matter anymore. Win win
That rather depends on the height I would think.
That’s why I hate Ferris wheels. Every time.
Now imagine riding one with your wife and TWO CHILDREN.
NEVER. FUCKING. AGAIN.
(Disclaimer: nothing happened, but the fucking horror and constant stress. That’s the kind of shit I have no problem doing by myself or with my wife only.)
Wat da fuk
These urges are what the Chao garden in sonic adventure was made for.
Damn chao garden… now that’s some good nostalgia
The call of the void. I think?
Seems similar enough. I thought it was more for random suicidal thoughts than ending someone else.
It gets used for all of that but I think it’s also more literally the feeling you get standing near a tall edge and picturing what it’d be like to jump. Translated from the French “l’appel du vide” I believe. I have it very strong, all the forms…
I have these kinds of thought all the time lol
Here, have some of mine!
THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKED ME INNA RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WIV RATS AND THE RATS DIDNT MAKE MW CRAZY THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKED ME INNA RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WIV RATS AND THE RATS DIDNT MAKE MW CRAZY THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKED ME INNA RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WIV RATS AND THE RATS DIDNT MAKE MW CRAZY THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKED ME INNA RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WIV RATS AND THE RATS DIDNT MAKE MW CRAZY THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKED ME INNA RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WIV RATS AND THE RATS DIDNT MAKE MW CRAZY THEY LOCKEDNME IN A RUBBER ROIM A TUBBER RUUNE WIV RATS AND THE RATS RJRNT MAKE ME FRCRAXT THEY LOCKED ME INNA RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WIV RATS AND THE RATS DIDNT MAKE MW CRAZY
We all do, intrusive thoughts and “call of the void” are basically your brain doing hypothetical situations to get better at prediction and other brain things (or at least that was the hypothesis last time I read about it)
Borderline c/LemmyBeWholesome
Is so wholsum
If the devil whispers in your ear just don’t listen
Just whisper even worse things back. Karma bitch
THE VOICSS THEY WONT SROP
CRAZY WHATS CRAZY… THEY… THEY STUCK ME IN A RUBBER ROOM A RUBBER ROOM WITH RATS AND THE… THE… THE RATS MADE CRAZY
Or in the case of Disturbed, make it into a music video to try and help others.
Big Saturn energy
Shin Sekai Yori is an light novel / anime about what happens when these thoughts have power and how a society might develop to control the destructive consequences of said thoughts.
Someone learned about intrusive thoughts.
Intrusive thoughts like that must be human nature. I doubt there is a single person who has never had a single thought about something like that.
Am I the only one who doesn’t do this?
Are you trying to say you’ve not experienced intrusive thoughts?
for me at least intrusive thoughts are basically equivalent to someone just saying it to me, and my response is simply “well, why would i do that? stop being dumb”
Yes, you’re the only one in the world. The chose one. The boy who survived.
You opted to throw the baby against the wall?
Who doesn’t do this every once in a while. Just a bit of tomfoolery
One of the very few at least. Around 90% of people have these kind of thoughts from time to time.
YEET
Unless you are in psychosis and then the intrusive thoughts win 😭
