To start this static single page project you first need to pull two dozen of JavaScript modules and configure them in 5-10 different files and learn the currently most hyped framework before even writing a single line of code.
And if you’re done, you’ll have to learn how your CI/CD stuff works, and kubernetes, and Helm. And somehow you’re also required to know the arcane and inconsistent rules that Ops put in place a few months ago without anyone telling the devs about it.
I’m have done both, Spring Boot and Laravel on BE and Vue, Svelte and React on FE.
Don’t believe the FUD. Vue and Svelte are fun if you have a moderate understanding of HTML, JS/TS and CSS in your sleeve and those reactive frameworks are indefinitely better than vanilla JS or jQuery. React is another beast and I really didn’t like working with it.
Both Vue and Svelte have nice setup tools for NPM/PNMP (I’d recommend the latter) that create template applications in a few minutes which immediately run inside a local dev-server. Change some code and changes are immediately reflected inside the browser. It’s really a nice DX. And both frameworks have very nice ecosystems and GUI frameworks, e.g. VueUse or shadcn-svelte.
React is fine too with the right tooling. Next.js, create-t3-app, vite etc. are all nice. I think svelte has fewer unfamiliar mental models and hurdles to initial development though. I tried vue years ago and found react made far more sense to me for some reason.
As an ops person I disagree! Our arbitrary changes are documented in a jira ticket in the ops project. If you can’t view the ops project fill free to open a ticket in ops and we will triage it when we feel like it.
Honest question: What is/are your problem(s) with Svelte? So far it seems a lot easier to use than react to me but I wouldn’t consider myself experienced so there might be unwelcome surprises waiting.
It is day and night. Svelte is nearly vanilla JS/TS. No quirks and surprising side-effects like in React. No shadow DOM. With the new rune system in the next version it will even be better. For me it had the best DX of all frameworks I tried.
I suppose OP is frustrated because the business world hasn’t catched up and most of them still only search for React devs, which is in my opinion very stupid, because React can be so frustrating for devs. The reddit sub for svelte has ever so often posts by them praising the sanity of Svelte.
But it would be a valid point by OP if that is their reason when their income depends on it. We can only hope Svelte catches up in that regard.
React is miles ahead of a bunch of much older frameworks businesses still use. I have projects being built new right now that use ui5 from sap. We have projects with spring boot with the templates in jsp.
I would much prefer a react project to ui5 or jsp.
And businesses with long running projects tend not to like using frameworks that don’t have at least ten years of usage and thus some proven surviveability unfortunately.
To start this project, you 1. Install Nix and 2. Run nix run (god I really love Nix. When it work. And use IFD to not have to manually update a single hash/run a command when you update the lock files.)
To start this static single page project you first need to pull two dozen of JavaScript modules and configure them in 5-10 different files and learn the currently most hyped framework before even writing a single line of code.
And if you’re done, you’ll have to learn how your CI/CD stuff works, and kubernetes, and Helm. And somehow you’re also required to know the arcane and inconsistent rules that Ops put in place a few months ago without anyone telling the devs about it.
Then when you’re done, you find out one of the core modules you use is considered a ‘security risk’ by your infosec team. So you have to start over.
Man, this is why I’m a backend dev, how ya’ll keep up with this shit…
Edit: Y’all responding with shit I’ve never even heard of before continues to disincentivise me from touching frontend
I’m have done both, Spring Boot and Laravel on BE and Vue, Svelte and React on FE.
Don’t believe the FUD. Vue and Svelte are fun if you have a moderate understanding of HTML, JS/TS and CSS in your sleeve and those reactive frameworks are indefinitely better than vanilla JS or jQuery. React is another beast and I really didn’t like working with it.
Both Vue and Svelte have nice setup tools for NPM/PNMP (I’d recommend the latter) that create template applications in a few minutes which immediately run inside a local dev-server. Change some code and changes are immediately reflected inside the browser. It’s really a nice DX. And both frameworks have very nice ecosystems and GUI frameworks, e.g. VueUse or shadcn-svelte.
React is fine too with the right tooling. Next.js, create-t3-app, vite etc. are all nice. I think svelte has fewer unfamiliar mental models and hurdles to initial development though. I tried vue years ago and found react made far more sense to me for some reason.
It’s really not that bad if your SE sets good standards.
We use C#, Entity Framework, and GraphQL for the BE.
Then TypeScript React for the FE. Now using Vite where we used to use CRA.
Oh you’re using react? I heard it’s not great for security. Just swap it out for angular and we’ll give our approval
As an ops person I disagree! Our arbitrary changes are documented in a jira ticket in the ops project. If you can’t view the ops project fill free to open a ticket in ops and we will triage it when we feel like it.
Yes, I’m that idiot. Learnt basic Nix flakes and Svelte. Should’ve stuck with React.
Found the Brit.
Honest question: What is/are your problem(s) with Svelte? So far it seems a lot easier to use than react to me but I wouldn’t consider myself experienced so there might be unwelcome surprises waiting.
It is day and night. Svelte is nearly vanilla JS/TS. No quirks and surprising side-effects like in React. No shadow DOM. With the new rune system in the next version it will even be better. For me it had the best DX of all frameworks I tried.
I suppose OP is frustrated because the business world hasn’t catched up and most of them still only search for React devs, which is in my opinion very stupid, because React can be so frustrating for devs. The reddit sub for svelte has ever so often posts by them praising the sanity of Svelte.
But it would be a valid point by OP if that is their reason when their income depends on it. We can only hope Svelte catches up in that regard.
React is miles ahead of a bunch of much older frameworks businesses still use. I have projects being built new right now that use ui5 from sap. We have projects with spring boot with the templates in jsp.
I would much prefer a react project to ui5 or jsp. And businesses with long running projects tend not to like using frameworks that don’t have at least ten years of usage and thus some proven surviveability unfortunately.
To start this project, you 1. Install Nix and 2. Run
nix run(god I really love Nix. When it work. And use IFD to not have to manually update a single hash/run a command when you update the lock files.)