I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
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Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.
Yeah, it’s actually helpful to have safe spaces for hateful assholes so they can be corralled away.
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
There are definitely some well meaning Americans and others who get suckered into the bullshit tornado that is those sites. They are definitely worth saving if we can. But it’s hard. They ban and block anyone with a dissenting voice no matter how calmly presented.
I see it as the neonazi movement in the US in late 90s and early 2000s. They want to be edgy, but don’t have a significant structure to actually do anything important. Around 2006 I ended up stealing a knife from a neonazi that came in to the restaurant that I worked at. It was a Mexican restaurant btw lol
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
Do you have any evidence of that at all? Why would Hexbear remain as an isolated instance for 4 years then, only beginning federation in the last year?
Is your question why a propaganda operation focused on disrupting or presidential elections would “go live” 18-ish months before the presidential election?
And are you asking if I have specific evidence that they’re trolls? Or that the governments I’ve listed have troll farms? Or that specifically HB is specifically rife with trolls from this governments’ farms? Because I definitely don’t have specific evidence. Just the historical evidence of (attempted) general interference from those countries in our previous elections.
Is your question why a propaganda operation focused on disrupting or presidential elections would “go live” 18-ish months before the presidential election?
If your assumption that Hexbear is just bots and propaganda was true, why would it remain isolated for 4 years, with posters talking only to each other? 4 years of training? And, correction on your part, it started federating 10 months ago, not 18.
It makes more sense for these to be people with genuine views and aligned interests.
And are you asking if I have specific evidence that they’re trolls? Or that the governments I’ve listed have troll farms? Or that specifically HB is specifically rife with trolls from this governments’ farms? Because I definitely don’t have specific evidence. Just the historical evidence of (attempted) general interference from those countries in our previous elections.
So you don’t, you’re just accusing people you disagree with of being propaganda agents and bots, despite them existing for 4 years in pure isolation. That’s silly.
Those poor people spending time only on HB for four years, never going anywhere else, never finding 4/8chan, never even finding reddit…
If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.
Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.
Their shit isn’t convenient or comfortable. It’s not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.
edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.
Their supposed support of LGBTQ+ is all for naught when they openly fawn after Stalin
There’s much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it’s a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn’t extend to physical force as that’s also a historically very well supported position.
It’s much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.
If not enjoying the image posts of young Stalin as some sort of brilliant maverick is mediocrity, well, so be it. They are clowns, and their beliefs structure is just like trump claiming he “loves the gays”
Young Stalin is where the good stuff is. It’s his implementation of those idealistic principles that’s unethical.
The rest of what you’ve said is strawman. Most important is the implying that they’re all of one mind. Diversity of ideology is perhaps their greatest strength.
🥱
Literally out here defending Stalin stans
Ad hominem is literally the best you had when confronted with facts that didn’t fit the shallow narrative you chose.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.
F them and f you for defending them.
This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.
Above screenshot is from said thread.
The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!
though, to be fair, kulaks are bad.
Childish? Kinda. Insane? No.
There are three relevant things to say about hexbear.
1. It is not a serious instance. Or at least not completely serious; they’re mostly there for memes, funposting, “I know that feel” etc.
So they’re less like the meeting room of a communist party than like the bar where those communists hang out and drink beer, after the meeting is over.
I feel like this is often misinterpreted, as HB users say something that is mostly a taunt and others interpret as actual argumentation. And it also tends to attract younger users, who… well, behave like young people?
2. Even if not a serious instance, they’re serious about their views. Your typical HB user is communist, antifa, vegan, anti-cop, and interprets things in a very specific way. They’re rather transparent about it.
And, because of #1, they aren’t really willing to spend their time entertaining anyone’s counterpoints. It’ll be interpreted as sealioning or similar.
3. Hexbear was already its own thing before federation. As such it developed social norms that often conflict with the norms typically found in the rest of the Threadiverse (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed etc.)
For example, even if Lemmy as a whole is prone to intrusive political discussions, HB users tend to do it far more. Because they’re used to an environment where this is typically taken as OK.
When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users:
- if you don’t like what someone is saying (because it’s idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.
- if you’re consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.
Thank you for saying this in a more detailed way than I have been. This is exactly right. They built their own leftist haven and became a whole culture of their own, and then became federated. There is bound to be an initial clash, but honestly I think most of the people who hate on them never gave them a chance. All they saw were the shitposts and the in-jokes and you closed the door.
When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users
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if you don’t like what someone is saying (because it’s idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.
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if you’re consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.
I see a lot of leftists (and leaning leftists), even on .world, who would be better off interacting with the users there (maybe blocking the shitposting comms). And outside of those most-seen comms (chapotraphouse and dunk_tank), there is genuine conversation and less shit talking and in-jokes. I believe, with more instances coming in that are federated with them (mine, .ml, and lem.ee? are a couple), some of the Hex-natives are understanding how to interact with curious left-leaning people with unintentionally wrong-headed ideas.
Downvote me all you want, I stand by Hexbear. o7
Answer me this: are they or are they not consistently in support of Russia/China? Because I’ve seen it a lot from them (and blocked the instance soon after joining Lemmy when I noticed the pattern).
Is it just some big joke that went over my head?
Support for PRC? Yes.
Support for the Russian Federation? Purely the anti-NATO role it takes, Hexbear hates Putin and the reactionary nature of the Russian Federation.
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This is the most reasonable response.
A lot of people here have long since made up their mind about hexbear based both on repeated meta posting on the topic and possibly a bad experience or two with them on a topic they assumed was uncontested but is a landmine topic for communists of a particular bent
I’ve personally never had a bad experience with hexbears, possibly because I’m more empathetic to their perspective, but more likely because I know when it’s time to disengage. There are users on lemmy who feel strongly about a certain topic that’s abrasive to hexbear users and dig in their heels when jeered at (or maybe feel a personal responsibility to stand them down) and are usually the users here who have the most complaints, because the standard reaction from hexbear users is irreverence (both the users and the mods).
Unlike a lot of liberals coming from reddit, communists often don’t have delusions about the neutrality of moderation and so they’ll ban you on a whim if they think you’re there to stir shit. They use the ban hammer judiciously even with users on their own instance. That’s often the biggest complaint both with hexbear and with lemmy.ml.
It’s not just you
And increasingly lemmy.ml, sadly
You are correct. Do your mental health a favour and block that instance along with lemmygrad.
Not really. They have a lot of bits and in-jokes which are going to seem incomprehensible to anyone from the outside, but most of them are pretty chill if you engage in good faith. It’s like a lot of tech communities; if you don’t do your research and ask intelligent questions, you’re likely to get told to RTFM.
Yeah it’s just like that… except that they advocate for the murder and starvation of countless people as a step in a process towards a utopia that cannot exist.
But yeah just a bunch of fun people with inside jokes
Your last comment is literally eco-fascist shit and you’re concern trolling about starvation?
I don’t understand… I was describing the reality of climate change. Does that make you uncomfortable?
Yeah, I think humans deserve the consequences of our actions with respect to climate change. And…?
Was I advocating for it? Do you maybe not know what that word means?
How does it feel to be the person who takes screenshots of other people’s comments on an Internet forum because you think it’s some kind of “gotcha”?
“HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point”
Without taking any sides, saying some group is insane and then saying that them lashing back “proves your point” is beyond stupid.
Like, of course they will, what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?
We should stop with this kind of BS in any sort of debate. Groups will protect themselves, and will not get polite to those who throw slurs at them; that’s natural, normal and speaks nothing about their average behavior.
This never proves any point and is nothing but a dirty rhetorical device aimed to shut your opposition up and make them seem irrelevant. This is not part of any possible healthy conversation.
Also, post is not a genuine question.
Also, post is not a genuine question.
I’ll answer yours in good faith.
what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?
Internally reach consensus to segregate themselves, then brigade the fediverse whole with content that allowed the majority to believe it was their choice.
Because such actions are well outside of status quo want for bandwagon validation they’re by definition “insane” and “unexpected”. But, the hexbear community is well aware that the majority is better off not yet knowing what they believe. Many expected such actions as it was an obvious moral and ethical imperative that lacked internal leadership support.
Most of the Lemmy.World users and mods are actively advocating to vote for Genocide, so i understand that Hexbear is a culture shock.
Because hexbear users would never do that, right? You’re fighting your battle on the wrong battleground.
idk, I’ve seen all the hype around hexbear users being obnoxious around Lemmy (including our own instance debating blocking the instance, followed by several of their members brigading the thread true to form)… but I’ve explored the communities on the instance itself and even subscribed to some of them like mutual aid, gaming etc, and those that I’m watching are actually just normal people doing normal things if more left than some other similar groups. In my experience it isn’t “all” hexbear users, because that would be a dumb generalization.
There are some assholes on that instance to be sure. Show me one that this isn’t true of. I’m glad our instance didn’t block them because I now get to decide for myself. I block communities and/or users if they’re a problem for me. I think that’s a good way.
The brigading was really annoying though, but I never noticed anything else bad about them. I don’t use ‘all’ very much and that is probably why.
They really don’t “brigade” much except in threads on which HB is mentioned.
However they will pile on in threads that grab their attention, but I think that’s more a result of them being a fairly large instance and their (mostly like-minded) users all finding popular threads organically in their feed.
01·5 months agoHexbear isn’t actually very large. Just very active.
