Keep it polite, folks. No personal attacks against others, especially speculations regarding mental or emotional capabilities.
I honestly think the whole Linux community should be reading that sub rather than acting like Linux is perfect. Right now desktop Linux is for very tech savvy people who are willing to put in the time to learn and fix, and it’s for their grandmas who only need a web browser and maybe a word processor. Anyone who thinks differently needs to get their head out of the sand. I use Fedora.
Lol don’t give them any attention. It’s the same 3 people who didn’t get loved enough during their formative years and cannot distinguish between good attention and bad attention
All three of them are Lunduke.
But lunduke doesn’t hate Linux. Only the fact that women are using it.
Idk if this is a joke or not.
Based on his more recent content, it’s almost serious.
Meh. I have no issues with novelty accounts/ projects that are taking the piss.
Some of those posts are decent jokes to be honest. Some are just desperate/scare tactics though.
I thought it was a satiric thing - is it meant to be seriously?
The owner once said they were not a meme community in a post. Empirical evidence disagrees.
I’m not sure. Some posts legitimately seem like Linux users making fun of themselves. Others really seem like people who have an actual grudge against it.
Poe’s Law, baby.
If you satirically make a community about the Earth being a triangle, users who actually believe it will pop up eventually.
They’re very serious. Or a very dedicated troll. Or both.
I got banned from that community when I said that I had no trouble playing any Steam or Heroic Launcher games. I also said I don’t play any AAA slop and especially any rootkit shit.
If it was satire, they wouldn’t have taken offense at that.
Ehh, it’s not like Linux is perfect. And if we want more Linux adoption it’s good to have different perspectives and be made aware of things that perhaps we haven’t thought of. It could be useful to vent about Linux through memes if we can have proper discourse and are willing to work collaboratively to solve issues.
a satirical linuxsucks would be so funny, like making fun of Linux for not having enough LLM integrations and ads
Why do we want more Linux adoption? I think that’s part of the problem. There is no reason to try to oversell Linux. If someone doesn’t want to use Linux and they don’t ask to about it you shouldn’t just randomly show up and say to use Linux.
If someone is complaining about windows, or raising privacy concerns that Linux would solve, or just talking about price options, then I think it’s perfectly fair to mention Linux.
Right now the biggest issue with Linux is that some software is not made for it. With more Linux market share, devs have a higher incentive to build software for Linux. Like imagine if videogame devs didn’t think they needed windows to work, or Mac to run adobe.
linux is terrible because removing the entire root folder can brick your system it should be more like windows where removing system32 can brick your system
The mention of UEFI in this context likely means they are thinking of a deletion recursing through sysfs and by extension deleting all visible UEFI variables which, in some firmware editions and versions, causes it not to be able to get through post or into the setup menu.
I vaguely recall this and the general issue was very bad firmware design, but it was possible to make it impossible to even reinstall a system. If you were industrious in windows you could have done the same thing, so malware under windows could also brick such platforms.
Of course rm has more safeguards on it so you have to pass more flags and really really be asking it to try to screw things up.
Like you said, it was just some early implementations of UEFI. I haven’t heard of anything like this happening recently.
Also the kernel makes those variable immutable by default now, except the well known standard ones, so even for buggy UEFI this is mitigated nowadays. Just pointing out it came from a once legitimate space as a consequence of “everything is a file in a monolithic file namespace”. Which on the one hand is bad if someone uses rm with all sorts of flags to overrule the “you don’t want to do this” protections in the utility. On the other hand what you accidentally managed to do in Linux represented a problem that windows malware could have exploited.
Also the kernel makes those variable immutable by default now
More specifically it has done that for the last 8 years :-D
Nice to know.
So, I would assume the firmware gave write access to a part of permanent memory, critical to starting the system.
I feel like that would be someone like me, thinking of it as a feature and giving the possible values for those variables in the readme. And of course, who reads the readme even though it says “READ ME”?
UEFI defines a structured way to have data shared with OS as read write variables, including the ability to create, modify, and delete variables that UEFI can see.
However, some firmware used this facility to store values and then their code assumed the variables would always be there. The code would then crash when it goes to read a deleted variable and not know what to do. The thing is deleting those variables per spec is a perfectly valid the due the OS to do, but firmware was buggy and the bugs not caught because normally OS would not bother those variables except for a few standard popular ones, like boot order.
So flashing the firmware would “solve” the issue? As in, it should rewrite the variables missing (and everything else), making the hardware usable again?
Generally speaking, these platforms are not flashable unless they can boot a flash utility, assuming that whatever prior firmware is running is at least in good enough shape to boot to an update environment.
There are designs to be robust and accessible even in the face of all this, but relatively rare, effectively unheard of in laptop market. Even some of those emergency recovery environments may be more limited than you would like to repair this sort of thing.
I see, in that case, that would not be someone like me :P as I tend to care about specifications.
This is a really useful explanation for someone who doesn’t know about the UEFI spec.
I was going to ask why anybody would want to move the root directory and where to but it was a joke right?
I’m a bit bias right now because I tried to install PopOS on a partition last night to see if i could play with it and make a media server. My VPN client failed to install properly, corrupted the OS and when I booted back to the live disk (Rufus made USB) I was able to format the partition but no longer install to it. The boot loader no longer works and it can’t get into any OS now.
I have to say I haven’t had this problem before, but working in IT and installing Windows on over 10 thousand computers in my career, this has happened to none.
(I’ll try another installer likely and format the partition over and see if another bootloader like grub will take and fix the issue).
Edit: changed course and said fuck it… formatted the entire drive and so much for the other data that was there. Clean install maybe the VPN client won’t botch everything this time.
Bootloader no worky can be caused by a hundred different issues. The installer may have removed the kernel or a CPIO archive (initramfs or processor microcode) that the bootloader needs. You could be missing some EFI program. If the boot entry is set to identify the root filesystem by its UUID, formatting/reinstalling would have changed the real UUID and then the bootloader wouldn’t be able to find it. Maybe installing the OS simply wiped or damaged that partition.
If you have to reinstall the OS, you should also reinstall the bootloader (the OS installer usually lets you do that from the GUI), or if you’re confident, update the boot entries to reflect the state of the computer. I strongly recommend using btrfs as your root filesystem instead of ext4, and use Timeshift to set up regular snapshots (btrfs) or backup clones (ext4) in case this happens again.
Darn, wish I would have read this prior to restarting the install after wiping the disk. I would have tried btrfs, it defaulted to ext4 as the machine was using mbr previously and not uefi for the boot, so I Rufus popped up with ext4 recommended and I ran with it
Ext4 is still perfectly fine. It’s a mature technology, and much more stable than btrfs. Your experience will not be any different because of this.
I still recommend using Timeshift. The only downside is that only the Rsync backup method will be available, which creates a full on-disk copy of your system files.
Thanks I’ll try it out once I set up the media server and figure out storage setup. Right now it just has an old 256ssd (sata) for the boot drive, originally was just taking 50gb for that and was going to use old 7200 drives for media storage. I assume I’ll need to have the time shift backups running to one of the other drives or it would be useless if the drive dies.
Yes, it’s best to store them on a separate hard drive. The target partition must be formatted as a Linux filesystem (ext2/3/4 or btrfs) in order to retain file ownership and permissions. I have a 512 GB partition on a hard drive reserved for the last three weekly backups and never ran out of space.
How is this not a joke community, like the Lunduke videos?
I thought the same at first, then I started to think the main person was just trolling, now I’m pretty sure they’re actually serious
Well, Lunduke is making hour long nuanced content just with baity titles. And he doesn’t spend a portion of his days on banning people and sending snarky comments. This is mostly shitposting, ragebait and wrong factual claims…
Lunduke is great to listen as long as his videos are not about “wokeness”, and lately all of them are, so I ended up unsubscribing him.
Microwaving any of your computer parts can brick them.
I accidentally ran
rm -rf /on my work MacBook once. Proper backups and patience with yourself are far better solutions than recommending to let Microsoft infect your computer.I love how he complains about being “brigaded” when the most comments on any post in the community is like 8.
That, and due to the relatively small nature of the fediverse, simply being in the new tab makes things likely to be seen for quite a bit, enough for ~8 users to come in and explain how backwards they’re being.
The community definitely has been brigaded though, as every single post (except one that is negative to Microsoft) has been downvoted to oblivion.
‘Brigading’ would be if pro-Linux communities were organizing to specifically target another community.
The fediverse is likely to attract the kinds of people interested in Linux in the first place, and all the negative attention that community attracts comes organically.
I talked with the user a bit in Linux_vs_Windows before they were booted from the community, and it’s my opinion that they just have a hate-boner going for Linux. It’s possible to have valid criticism of Linux, but they go way past legitimate and straight into obsession territory. They tend to post in that community daily. So their points aren’t exactly great (though sometimes they hit on a good meme) and they get the points they get naturally.
It’s not a conspiracy, their arguments just tend to be shit.
I read a really egregious childish and angry comment that had nothing to do with linux, and it went on so badly I checked the persons post history up, something I very rarely do, guess who it was…
I also already had that linux hate community blocked, it was so low effort when it wasn’t just outright wrong.
the one and only mod there was practically the only poster.
it was honestly sad to see how much anger they harbored against a platform that literally doesn’t care.
Gotta protect the microsoft stocks.
For whatever reason, Reddit’s algorithm decided I should start seeing that community, and I’ve always struggled to figure out if it’s just Linux users shitposting, or if there are people out there who really just have huge boners for Microsoft
It started out as ironic shit posting which attracted and built an unironic hate/conspiracy community
It’s happened over and over and over again lol
I’m inclined to think former. Excepting X box players, I’ve never actually met anyone in real life who actually likes Microsoft. Only people who are forced to use it, and don’t feel like migrating to greener pastures.
As a heavy Linux user, the more I use it, the more shit I talk on it.
Reddit?
Yeah, Reddit’s got /r/linuxsucks
That’s hilarious. Is that one also run by 2 mods that are the only ones that post?
I honestly don’t know, but that would be hilarious
I also thought it was Linux shitposting, but I’ve had a few comments deleted there. I think they seriously hate Linux for some reason.
Funny that there’s a meme against open source on lemmy
In A UEFI World, “rm -rf /” Can Brick Your System
efivars are made read only by the kernel. That firmware bug (!) was worked around in the kernel years ago.
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/filesystems/efivarfs.rst
Specifically in 2016: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ed8b0de5a33d2a2557dce7f9429dca8cb5bc5879
uefi is cringe anyway, reject uefi and return to grub in the system firmware
Firmware is one step before.
BIOS, UEFI, coreboot, or whatever weird code runs on a Raspberry Pi’s GPU to load your system, those are firmwares.
The firmware is what starts your bootloader; grub, BOOTMGR, u-boot, etc
even if my grub is in the system eeprom?
Oh I’ve never heard of such a setup. But that does muddy the lines a bit, I can see the argument for calling it part of firmware then.
yeah it’s goofy, you can embed grub in coreboot cbfs and load straight into it, skipping the bios/uefi stage. it’s a bit difficult to set up (and you need coreboot supported hardware) but when you get it working the boot times become really quick
i just realised though that you can embed Linux into cbfs as well, does that then mean that Linux could be my kernel and firmware at the same time?
you can embed grub in coreboot cbfs and load straight into it, skipping the bios/uefi stage.
Why would someone do that? *keeps reading*
boot times become really quick
Now I almost want to try it out.
Wow very cool. Thanks for that link, I had no idea coreboot was so flexible!
Quick glance AFat that place and wow. Talk about people completely and utterly missing the point
Yeah, I know I can be annoying when I tell people for the 100th time that they should install Linux, but I wouldn’t have to say that if they didn’t get their computer hacked / full of viruses / full with Microsoft bloat and spyware they want removed and come to me to fix that shit on each of those occasions.
Its all one person. Literally 98% of the posts are one butthurt dude, who then goes on to complain that linux users are annoying because they make it their whole personality.
It just gets sad when you remember the dude running it isn’t doing this for satire. They generally think it sucks.
I thought it was satire at first and thought, how long before they start going after stereotypes? Then I saw it was just that one person and thought damn someone misconfigured their backups and lost their job.
Wait… Is that community run by Gerald Holmes?
http://www.l8r.net/geraldholmes.freeyellow.com/ (a 25 year-old, very likely satire site)
Oh, the irony.
I think PC gamers in general are annoying regardless of what OS they use. I say this as a Linux PC gamer.
I agree…I Linux game in Arch btw.
Noob distro, all the true Linux gamers use LFS.
The thing that he doesn’t understand is that he cannot ascertain my “entire personality” by simply seeing the facets of it I show in linux forums.
Furthermore, I would argue that creating and singularly sustaining a salty “fuck linux” community puts OP pretty far up the list of “linux is entire personality,” even if “anti-” it’s still likely more than most of us tbh. Like I say, all I know of them is from that comm so I’m sure there’s other facets to their personality I’m not privy to, I’m just saying, who is really more obsessed, the guy posting in forums and sometimes recommending it as an alternative when people complain about windows, or the guy who runs a whole ass hate community dedicated to it? Ironic, really.
ironic really. they became the thing the hated most.
a platform bandoliering with an incessant need to promote their values as better than everyone else’s.
the only saving grace for Linux fanbois is that they’re usually right.
rm -rf /can brick your systemWell good thing there’s basically no legitimate reason to ever even use
rm -rf /anyway so GNU version is perfectly within its rights to refuse to do that by default, am I right? If you know what you’re doing and want to nuke partitions, that’s whatcfdiskandmkfsare for, dammitYeah like so could deleting system32, and there were plenty of memes about that also.
‘Bricked’ in this sense meaning not that you’d just trash your OS and need a reinstall, but that it could actually stop your computer from booting at all. So the system32 analogy doesn’t exactly fit.
It’s because some motherboards implement UEFI in a way that allows important variables to be overwritten by I/O processes. Executing
sudo rm -rf /*would recursively go into the EFI parameters folder where the kernel mounts EFI variables and attempt to delete things. Some motherboards allowed these delete operations to remove things in the motherboard’s firmware it needs to complete POST, thus rendering the motherboard useless.But that’s a problem with the motherboard, not with Linux or Windows. The same damage can be caused by Windows.
rm -rf / won’t even run. Only sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve-root will
Really? Let me tr
yeah but what about
rm -rf ../../../.../var/lib/../../?
