Statistic on the news said that 50% of the population there are under 18…
Because they don’t want the Palestinians either.
Same reason Jordan hasn’t done it.
It’s been suggested and rejected.
IIRC, Egypt also sees Hamas as a threat since Hamas is backed by Iran. They aren’t going to do anything to make life easier for Hamas or similar groups.
Jordan won’t take them either.
Now in all fairness they want their own country even though historically they’ve never had one.
That may be the right move but they have to stop acting like terrorist first.
I had a good Palestinian friend who always felt they should merge with Israel and ride the gold train
they have to stop acting like terrorist first.
Maybe Israel should stop acting like fascists.
One does not excuse the other.
That goes both ways.
…that is what I said? Weird that you would effectively just repeat me.
Not everyone is arguing with you. I agree. Is that better?
Every thread on Lemmy the last few days.
The kurds never had a country should we let them continue to be abused?
I see the same solution from the other direction.
IMO the “sovereignty” of Palestine is only as it is now because otherwise Israel would have to let the Palestinians into the democratic process where they could just vote out the settler minded fascists.
A coalition needs to impose the one state solution by force, and only withdraw as a solid millitary core is built up capable of cracking down on separationist and supremacist cells.
Draconian tier protections against violations of civil rights and equal rights.
Egypt already has 12 million homeless people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population
1.2 out of 10 people in Egypt is homeless.
Jordan, with a population of 11 million people, already has 2.1 million Palestinian refugees and 1.4 million Syrian refugees.
Those countries are in no position to help.
Look elsewhere for solutions.
I have a question. How many homeless people do we need to build a house, taken that stones, clay and sticks are available (or provided)? People once build pyramids there. World is anyway supporting them with food and a means to live – can’t the leadership be provided too (if they can’t organize themselves)? Can’t able to work build the houses for themselves and others? What do they do all day?
P.S. and I understand than not everybody can work, some have health issues - but hey, we are talking about 12milion, sure there are atleast 120k able to work persons in that crowd, who could work for 2 hours per day each.
So you want to make a scrap material slum? With no infrastructure like running water or sewage?
I suppose anything is possible if you take human dignity out of the equation.
Do they chose to do not work for the good of themselves and not to inprove their enviroment, because of their dignity? Do “feeders” and supporters think they improve dignity of the feeded ones, by keeping needfull ones dependant with constant support?
And whats wrong in building infrastructure by themselves? Diging up watter, clay, making whatever things civilization done thousands years? Other (e.g. north countries) people do it even then they have to grow their own food, fight the cold and bad seasons in parallel. Here we have all food, minimum shelter from elements and even medicine already provided. And yet, where is the progress? Whats wrong in that whole support process then?
You think you could build a functioning, sanitary sewer without any training or education
If you can get people to leave the pile alone long enough, composting is safe and yields a useful end product https://humanurehandbook.com/
You think you can read, I thought you could. ;) Because I specifically mentioned quot: taken than the leadership is provided …
and that implies all kinds of leadership. Helping to organize, management, help of qualified engineers, consultations and their services, overseers in the field, and/or training specialists. It’s not that it is a rocket science, and we are not talking about skyscrapers. Any body can be a builder after some explaining, if we are talking about single store simple hause with running watter, sewer. And anybody can dig and lay pipes. Hell, they already had ramp, lever, clay brics, stone blocs, ropes, paper, maths, and even a wheel there, more than a 5 thousand years ago. More than 2 thousands years ago they already had there a water wheel, pipes and other water technologies. It is not that a rocket science is needed to develop the enviroment. It can be needed if we want to do it fast, labour and economicaly efective, but that is not a case here. We are talking about supported people – it’s not that they use their time efectively now or will lose something by taking two hours per day to improve their enviroment themselves.
Was your mother an alcoholic?
Do you imply all theirs mothers were?
Are there official spaces where they would be allowed to build?
P.S. I’ve read a bit about specifics of Egyptian homelesness problem. I see that the problem for the big part here is, a bit, of a diferent kind of nature… than in long term (almost permanent) refugies camps, or former Gaza strip (as an example), where almost everything is/was suplied.
Seams, that Egyptian government doesn’t even know (have exact criteria) whom to count as a homeless ones there and lot’s of people seam to be living in undeveloped self-build slums without improving the enviroment themselves further or for better. It’s hard to understand – is it because it is good enougth for them as is, or that they have diferent priorities or no good leadership. Anyway even if full support is not provided, or only partial is – living in whatever shelter in africa south is much, much easyer than in (as for example) in north europe, where it would be a certain death at the first winter, or even as early as autumn. Maybe north people (and societies) been forced by nature elements to become more self incentivised (othervise death) to take care of enviroment and homes development up to the level, or maybe in north simply nobody survived it in enough amounts to procreate endles generations of homeless up to astonishing 12 milion numbers. Such number of people can build a country and we are talking about what if 10% of them took a part (atleast two hours per day) in helping to build and develop their enviroment themselves. My first question stands – how many homeless is needed to build a house for themselves? I’ll just corect it with adding – and to improve, develop enviroment around it.
Damn, that’s tough!
One, they don’t give a fuck about the Palestinians, they only want it as a bargaining chip for diplomatic purposes. Same with all the Arab nations who clutch their pearls. The Palestianins have been intentionally isolated there by all the Arab nations bc they use it for PR.
We moved a bunch of people and made Israel. So let’s do it again. We’ll just move the Palestinians to Wyoming. We’ve got plenty of space up there.
You know what? Fuck it, let’s do it. We helped create these problems, let’s help solve them. 67% of Gaza’s population is under 24, so any money we spend, we’ll like get back in tax dollars. We can set up a Palestinian relocation bureau and start a voluntary exodus. Set aside relocation into our empty ass states, with some condition that they must maintain permanent residence for 5-10 years in that state. Have a jobs program and generate a great surge of skilled labor. We might let in a few extremists, but a third of our population is already there, so a couple thousand more won’t really impact our status quo too much.
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“Hey Cleetus, we should offer to let Palestinians immigrate freely to America.”
“Hell no! My brother didnt go to Afghanistan so we can just invite the terrorists in!”
Sing-song voice “They haaaaate jeeeeeewwws”
“Aite I’m listenin”
Not to mention, most Jews in America would NEVER vote for the party that proposed that ever again.
I like the but enthusiasm but not all wyomingers will want neighbors, kinda like some of the indigenous Palestinians didn’t necessarily want a bunch of settlers. Hmm
Not just Wyoming, we have quite a few states that sit empty. Their opinions on the issue don’t matter. They’ll just have to make do, like they expect others to do. Like I said, we’ll make it voluntary for the Palestinians. Those who want to stay and fight the power in the apartheid state can, but those who want a chance at something else can come on over.
I know you are not suggesting that seriously, but if we were to consider that seriously, I don’t think it would work.
Palestine (and more concretely Jerusalem) is considered the Holy Land by Judaism, Islam and Christianity. That’s why the state of Israel was created there and not somewhere else. And that’s why Palestinians wouldn’t receive with a lot of enthusiasm the idea of being given a state of their own somewhere else.
A big part of the conflict is a “holy war” thing about who controls the Holy Land.Fuck religion and fuck everyone in that region in particular. As long as they keep killing each other in revenge for killing each other, things aren’t going to change.
Come visit us in the 22nd century and see how civilized it could be.
I told this to a group of people once and the silence killed me from ever commenting on the situation in a group setting again. A diplomat I am not
🤣What kind of heartless monster do you have to be to inflict Wyoming on the poor souls‽
Haven’t they suffered enough‽
You’d probably see the most success relocating them to the great lakes where arab communities are already pretty well established. Also Queens to a lesser extent, Palestinians in particular would feel right at home in Queens, they’ve got Knaffeh and everything!
Better Wyoming than Fr*nce
Wyoming is absolutely beautiful, it’s main downside is that for much of the year its weather wants you dead.
They’re from one of the hottest countries on Earth, and you wanna give them even more problems by placing them in one of America’s coldest states, with heat domes and blizzards in the same week, hurricane-force winds and hail that can kill you? (Wyoming)
To add to what everyone else has said, why should the Palestinians be forced to move? You’re suggesting the next Armenian Genocide or Trail of the Tears.
Aside from what everyone else is saying, Egypt is on the verge of economic collapse. People are poor and the Egyptian Pound is losing all of its value, even if we do open our borders Egypt won’t be able to provide any kind of support to them.
Even when they weren’t on the verge of collapse, they wouldn’t help. It’s politically expedient to have them there and feign outrage at Israel. It helps mask their anti-semitism and distracts from all the times the Arabs have attacked Israel, hoping to destroy it.
I am not PRO Israel… they have enormous and many war crimes under their belt. Just as the Palestinians do. If you think there is one easily culpable pRty here and just a victim and a bully, then you have not studied the history of that region and conflicts. Do not the my word for it, go reasearch–its out there and available. Do check your sources, though.
Why Doesn’t France/UK/US/Italy/Japan/China/Russia/Turkey or whatever country open it’s border ?
Because we gladly don’t border Gaza
Fucking right. I’m so glad I’m nowhere near that area. I looked at my six months old son and it just breaks my heart all the kids that are terrified right now bcz of power hungry assholes.
To be fair, they’ve been killing each other for thousands of years and aren’t about to stop doing so now. Hard to feel sorry for them in that context.
ThOusAnds of YeerS!! Amerifat education system strikes again
Joke’s on you; not everyone on the Internet is from Murica.
As if that makes it better.
And still we could travel there without passing through any other country.
Explain how France, UK share a border with the Middle East?
If you say “airport” then New Zealand and Greenland go on your list too.
I didn’t say “share borders”, I said direct travel.
I’m pretty sure the average Palestinian would rather live in Tel-Aviv than Nuuk.
To Gaza specifically? Because it would be wildly unpopular in states already struggling with severe islamophobia problems.
Otherwise, can’t speak for europe and asia, but the US actually would be actively dooming mexico if it opened the borders. Anyone who could possibly help Mexico improve itself would suddenly have easy access to just getting up and leaving instead, initiating a vicious cycle of brain drain that would set Mexico back decades in terms of developing an educated professional core.
Israel’s peace treaty with Egypt after the Yom Kippur War gives Israel control of a 100-meter wide buffer between Gaza and Egypt. So it doesn’t open its borders because it doesn’t have one, just a border with Israel. A later agreement gave Egypt some limited control over the buffer zone, so there are Egyptian guards in charge of the border crossing now, but they can’t do whatever they want.
Open border or not, that crossing is a literal death trap right now.
Thanks for the link, there is a link to another article that details Egypt’s request to open a humanitarian corridor. Good to hear, and answers my question.
Reuters reported that Egyptian authorities have asked Israel to refrain from targeting the border area and to create a safe corridor for civilians, citing two security sources.
Accepting 2 million refugees from Gaza (~2% of Egypt population) would surely crash Egypt economy and cause many unforseen social issues.
Or it would skyrocket it.
Places with high immigration are places that are doing well. Places with low immigration are places in decline.
The extreme example would be the US. It received a huge amount of immigrant shortly often its funding and eventually prosper. The native got fucked though.
Oh and I must provide this example : anciant Egypt culturally absorbed many invaders despite losing to them. The only changes were the name of the dynasty. This proves that sometimes even a hostile invader can integrate itself in your culture.
Yes. And ultimately that’s what the racists are afraid of. But it’s not year 1500 anymore. The “natives” now have armies and weapons no one can challenge.
It doesn’t change the matter : countries that flourish have a high immigration. It is both because they are flourishing and because they have the influx of people to do so.
The irony is that success fuels success and decline fuels decline, yet people are fighting tooth and nails to keep declining because they fear the decline.
If Poland can do it…
Poland isn’t a desert. Poland has farmland. Most of Poland is actually habitable.
The middle east is mostly desert, so that’s not really a reason
Poland also have much higher GDP per capita, much lower poverty rate, and a member of EU which increase the economic opportunity for its citizens.
Sure, a lot of Ukrainians travelled through Poland to other places though. Why can’t the countries in the region do it with the support of NGOs?
Because Israel’s neighbors pretend to take the moral highground when in reality, none of them want to accept the Palestinians either. No country wants to look soft on migration. Poltics 101.
Is there a good eli5 on this. There is a lot here to understand and unpack and i need to be better educated. I think in the end it’s a holy war but don’t want to make improper assumptions.
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Listening to a book now. Zionism started before WW1 when the territory was owned by the Ottomans. There have been individuals trying to get buy in to colonize the region forever
Antisemitism was already extreme at this time. It culminated in ww2, but it was already very pronounced a century earlier. Racism theories saw people like subhuman, but they also saw Jews like a different, grotesque kind of human.
I don’t disagree, was this the reason for a Jewish homeland?
Partly I think. I’m no expert. But after ww2 the US and USSR split the world between eachother, so with Israel the US had an opportunity for a vassal in this area. And politicaly the Jews being harassed everywhere through all of history made its case to give them a part of land.
I think that the area was a colony at the time, so it was easier for the west to give a land it doesn’t care much about.
The kurdes would like a solution like this these days I think. But given today’s context their chance is slim.
This is so wrong it’s absurd, it gives you absolutely no information on the history of this conflict. The current conflict dates back to the early 20th century, well before world war 2.
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Ryan McBeth has done a fairly succinct video on it.
It’s very high level and skips a lot of nuance, but you get the idea.
Just fyi, if you’re interested in anonymity always strip the ?=si parameter from any YouTube url you share. “si” stands for source identifier, it is there for invasive tracking purposes, and because you posted this now your YouTube ID is linked with your fluke@lemmy.world account.
It’s easy to strip, and you can strip it even when the rest of the url is shortened by simply removing everything after and including the question mark:
If there are other parameters like a time mark, just strip the part that involves the si=, leaving the t= info, and the remaining url will still work fine.
Just so you know. I did not click on it as you had it; I copied and stripped it before pasting because fuck Google, but go ahead and edit your post now if you care about not having your social media accounts linked to each other.
Awesome PSA, thank you! :)
Because of fear of retaliation from Israel ?
Well Israel won’t complain if people leave Palestine
They will if ammunition and arms enter the occupied territories
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Remember when the US caused million is refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan, filling up all the Muslim countries with refugees? And then after the starvation and war in Syria those refugees were forces to go to Europe?
Yes, but what’s your definition of filled up?
UK has 280 people per km2
Egypt has 113 people per km2
Population density is a shit stat to use for this, most of Egypt is uninhabitable.
Egypt is literally a desert. Most of the country is uninhabitable. Do you propose they just start shoving refugees into the desert?
As is the rest of the region. Or are you saying the whole of the middle east is uninhabitable?
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I mean generally able to absorb refugees. It’s less a matter of current density, and more a matter of having resources, infrastructure and critically time to absorb them. Yes, I agree Europe and the US could do more.
I’d hope they’d get a lot of NGO support
It’s obviously way more complicated than that
Please tell me who to vote for to help. Biden is pretty pro Israel afaik. :(
