Similar vibes than Reddit api pricing
When Twitter (and Reddit) pulled this off, I was just mildly pissed. Can’t do interesting things with my data, oh no.
…Image that, except it’s an expensive luxury car you’re no longer allowed to do interesting things with.
stop buying tesla, stop supporting spacex, and stop buying starlink
SpaceX will be the only game in town once the new administration eviscerates nasa
^^ this. In America the only vote that really matters is the one you do with your wallet.
But what launch provider should I use then?
Boeing? No, I don’t think so.
don’t use any. space programs are wholly unnecessary
You don’t like GNSS?
Also space programs have been the source of a lot of world changing inventions.
because spending money on space exploration when people are homeless and hungry is wrong
Are you 12?
I agree that manned space programs are unnecessary and unmanned should be very limited. Starlink shouldn’t have been allowed. Unfortunately the US government let telecoms off the hook when it came to serving rural areas.
And stop using Xitter.
…Ok, now what? Is evil defeated yet?
edit: He’s a fucking cabinet member. Think of something real unless you all want to go hit him with pillows in disgust.
if boycotts didn’t work they wouldn’t try to criminalise them
Something to note: Tesla has two vehicle APIs, the Fleet API for commercial accounts and the Owner API for individuals. This change currently only impacts the Fleet API.
If you are an individual owner who accesses your vehicle data from the Owner API (usually via a self hosted tool like TeslaMate), this does not affect you. Yet.
I’m not a developer, so excuse me if this is a dumb question. Is the API supplying data that is provided by the OBDII interface? Or is it more than that?
There is most likely an overlap on what you can get from the OBD port, but generally speaking the API will provide more high level info e.g driving status, mileage, live location - and the OBD port will provide more low level data e.g. detailed battery stats from the BMS, energy usage, etc.
I see. Thanks.
Hey kid, don’t waste your breath defending corporations. You will end up being wrong in the end, and before that you just look like a fool.
Highlight where in the above post I am defending anything.
Isn’t it tacitly defending this pricing model?
I’ve worked in commercial environments where we’ve had the rug pulled on us in exactly this manner.
Sure today Tesla isn’t charging you, but the moment it is expedient for them, they will.
A lot of users here will have had the same experience with Reddit – it’s not unprecedented.
Providing and clarifying information isn’t automatically defending something.
Not at all.
Lemmy is overwhelmingly militantly anti-Tesla, which is understandable considering who owns it, but it does mean that users tend to interpret any neutral or factual statements (basically anything that is not outright criticism) as having a pro-Tesla bias.
In this case, all I am stating is the fact that this specific change currently only affects corporate users. That could of course change in the future.
There is a rich history of cloud based data providers pulling the rug from under users with no warning. Look at what happened to Nest users when Google took over.
There’s no laws against profiteering?
Tesla is an American company, in Texas, at that.
It wouldn’t matter if there were.
Another reminder to developers to not bother with public APIs, just screen-scrape or reverse-engineer the official app private API.
Virgin API user vs chad scrapper.
Really the lesson is, don’t run a business that 100% depends on another company.
This. It’s a recipe for disaster. I think enough (tech-related) companies have shown now, that they first want to lock you in, and then if they got you, want to bleed you out…
Then you’re at risk of getting sued for cracking the encryption or the API breaking constantly
The real reminder is don’t integrate with devices which you can’t trust
Yeah guys. Downvote me. This is literally part of my day job.
In our industry we call not using an official API a dumpster fire API. Because more than once it has completely broken eventually, and there are a few manufacturers warned will break in the upcoming future
Is it illegal to scrape? I mean most companies and governments scrape huge amounts of data all the time without getting anyones permission, hell the entire business of a search engine is basically WeScrape4U.
If you extract a key from a proprietary client to decrypt a private API, it definitely is illegal. If you do this as a corporation, it would also be easy to detect by abnormal usage patterns tied to your account and presents you as a nice big set of pockets to get sued.
Just screen scraping isn’t illegal, but is fragile as fuck and will break at the worst time and you have no ability to implement version control to manage it.
API pricing is such a shitty obnoxious dogshit practice that is now of course becoming standard because of course it is. internet barely costs money come the fuck on make a quality product
It used to be a respected standard for developers and hosts to be somewhat open and friendly to 3rd party devs, because ultimately they’re customers and they’re helping recruit and retain customers, they should be treated with respect. just because it’s innovative and disruptive to invent the machine gun doesn’t mean it’s good
just because it’s innovative and disruptive to invent the machine gun doesn’t mean it’s good
That’s a great Maxim.
I didn’t think there would be a pun in there but, man, you found it! 👍
Well, I am a Prodigy at that sort of thing!
The internet (ie bandwidth) is cheap, but running servers, providing documentation and tech support all costs a decent amount of money.
However, treating an API as a profit center is a joke. These are literally companies developing software that makes the experience of owning a Tesla better. Making things unaffordable for those companies is putting short term profits over long term success of your product
But 90k is nothing to Tesla, it’s just a paywall to keep the third party devs put while being able to claim to be open
while being able to claim to be open
Marketing is happy while dafdy gets to squeeze
Anyway, look at their actions, not their propaganda
I have the slightest bit of sympathy. So many companies got their shit scraped and fed into AI models. They lost out. They’re afraid it will happen again.
They didn’t lose anything, that’s our data.
I mean, I get your point, that’s why I said “slightest”. I’m basically just saying I understand their perspective.
Its Tesla; y’all should be dumping that shit anyway.
Fuck Elon. Fuck Tesla.
I was their target demographic and Elon made sure that I never even consider their trash. I went BMW instead.
How is it driving without turn signals? Granted, given they put them as buttons on the friggin steering wheel in the new Teslas, maybe not much different?
I am sad to say that the old joke is becoming obsolete. These new cars are smart. If you try to change lanes without a turn signal, the car beeps loudly to tell you that you have drifted. Our company also has a Sprinter van that will actually pull you back into your lane. Sad times.
This is why Elonia is asking trump to impose tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Other car manufacturers started biting into Tesla market share this year.
Poor Queen Elonia.
He want to add tarrifs and he is also asking Trump to remove government subsidies on new EV purchases, raising the barrier to entry in the US for EVs
There’s no way he’s asking for that. If you can find a source for that claim I’d love to see it. But it’s about the dumbest thing musk could do.
Wow… Well I maintain that is about the dumbest thing he could do, but I apologize for doubting you.
It’s a good way to make money by shorting his competitors’ stocks.
BMW does have shady monetization tactics with their newer car, but Subaru shred almost every other car brands to dust
Are Subaru cars still loud AF? I had a 2002 Impreza, and a 2012 and both had lots of road noise with everything in the car popping or cracking with every bump.
Okay that’s not just me, thank god. I thought something was just wrong with the sound deadening on my Forester, especially because my 30 year old Mazda 323 is at least 50% quieter. Nope, its what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
Of course, and that’s part of the charm. They bag out like a pair of leather slippers. I read something recently about them using a shit ton more adhesive in the new Forester so maybe it’s improving? My 2015 isn’t that bad, but I hate driving in general so basic appliance standards is fine by me.
BMW lobbies against non-car based infrastructure and car industry regulation here in Germany. Biggest shareholder is the Quandt family, who are descendant from literal Nazis, and now use part of their billions to fund the conservatives (at least they aren’t giving it to the far-right. Yet.)
So yeah, fuck Elon, but fuck BMW too.
Yeah fine me a car company that’s not like that. Living in the US it’s a necessity to have a car so just gonna nix that argument. I bought a Toyota to get ultimate reliability (yes Honda is basically equal) but I’m sure they both have done equally terrible shit. And when I’m not in grad school I want to go back to a BMW because they are great cars to drive. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism so just try to enjoy your life where you can.
On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, if you’re saying you bought from brand A, not B, specifically because the big boss of B is a shithead, I feel like it’s valid to point out the ways the big boss of A is shit too.
Since everyone is shit, I dunno, buy used, I guess.
It’s good information and something I will take into account for next time.
“Theres no ethical consumption under capitalism, so what do you expect me to drive a used car like a PEASANT? If i cant consume 100% ethically ill just consume however i want, and i want a fancy german treat car so just shut up okay”
That BMW iDrive looks good but if it’s all app and touchscreen based… Imma skip.
TBH though, all the damn nice EVs are touch screens or bubble crossovers.
Why the fuck do I want to drive a bubble. I want to drive an electric car. Take the Ford Mustang, put the electric parts in it, and don’t turn it into a crossover. Take the Toyota 86, put electric parts in it. Do not turn it into a cross over.
Idk take any fucking car that looks like a fun car and goddamn it, put electric parts in it, don’t add touchscreens, and don’t stick your lips on the wand of soap and blow into the frame making it a goddamn bubble crossover.
Because it’s not that easy. Batteries are big, people want 250+ miles on a charge and battery tech isn’t there for standard sedans and smaller.
I just went through this and ended up with the mach-e (which I’m very happy with) but it still weighs about as much as my minivan (almost 5000lbs).
All EVs are nearly 5000lbs. The xDrive i4 I mentioned is 5063lbs
But the interior DOES have buttons so it’s back on my like list.
There was something about the i4 I just didn’t like. I think it was how it felt kind of like an m3 to me. In the sense that if all you care about is going fast, then it’s a great car, but it’s not the luxury of the 5 or 7 series, which is what I think of when I think of BMW.
I’m too old for a car like that, and don’t drive enough to justify the i5 price, so I went economical (in comparison at least) with the mach-e. It’s fun to drive, has enough gitty-up-and-go for me, and it’s comfortable.
Though I got reeeeeeally close to saying fuck it and getting the i5.
I’m waiting for the price on used i5s to drop a bit before I trade my car in for one. Since they’re only a year old, they’re still super pricy. i4 is a bit small for me if I have people in the back.
The 530e is pretty perfect for me in the meantime. Only 20 mile range on full electric, but that works pretty perfectly for me since I can charge at home and at work. On longer trips I can still burn dinosaurs, but I only fill the tank up a few times per year. I think I’ve put gas in it 6 times this year, and that includes a couple ~3 hour trips.
I’ve thought about Tesla, but there’s so much I don’t like about them.
I’ve got a RAV4 that will last quite a while if I need space. In 6-12 months, hopefully after I buy I home, I’m going to need a car that says “single software engineer dad with midlife crisis money” and my boy loves the interior of the i4 coupe.
I’ll look at the i5 though
Ioniq 6.
never owned a BMW, or a Tesla for that matter, but I’ve heard they’re just as bad when it comes to being money hungry
That is correct, but at least BMW knows how to make decent cars that won’t trap you in in an emergency.
There is no such thing as a benevolent corporation. Don’t feed the fascists. Don’t give your money to Elon.
EDIT: Autocorrect derp
I mean, fuck Elon and Tesla but if you’re spending money on a car you’re giving it to a bastard one way or another. The CEOs of Ford, BMW, et. al. might not be making asses of themselves on the global stage, but I’m sure they’re still horrible. Even used cars run on gas 99% of the time.
There are levels of bad. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good (or in this case, only slightly better).
A friend bought a new BMW. Everything is controlled with an app. There’s also an interface in the car itself, obviously, but the app has more functions.
Things like seat heating, air conditioner, enhanced cruise control and all the fancy things are only available if you subscribe to one of the three offerings.
I just glanced over the app, so i don’t remember the names, but it went like the usual: basic, premium, platinum.
Prices were in the range of 200, 400, 700 euros a fucking month.
Yeah choosing BMW is a strange choice against something like Tesla when they are doing the same sort of thing. I won’t criticize the “I’m rich so I bought an expensive car” thing, that can happen elsewhere, but the idea that BMW is the lesser of the evils isn’t really accurate.
I wish we were in a world where we could more easily avenge our terrible upbringing in this system moment after moment like Geralt, where if we’re to choose between the lesser of two evils, we’d rather not choose at all.
Are you saying that you can’t use the A/C without subscribing to their app?
I think they are very mistaken about the options requiring a subscription and their price. Most of the options you could get a subscription for also are available as a one time purchase… the same way they were in the past. Heating and air conditioning aren’t among those options, they come standard in every car.
BMW did drop the subscription for heated seats after backlash. That one was stupid. The other options I’m a little torn on. There are costs associated with developing the software used for most of the options like driving assistance. I have no problem paying for that development, and the subscription lets me try it for a month to see if it’s worth it. As long as there is the ability to outright buy the option instead of locking into a perpetual subscription I’m chill with it. I also hope that once unlocked, the option is still available when resold. This part I’m not so sure about, but mine seemed to maintain the options purchased by the original owner.
It’s not a super recent article, but a list of options and pricing is available at the bottom of this page: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/bmw-quietly-launches-in-car-subscriptions-in-u-s/
I only had the chance to peek and after reading your comment, it sounds very plausible that general heating is a basic function. I’m sure i saw the seat-heating, in the lowest price subscription though. It must have been before they dropped the subscription for it. The paid air conditioning included air purifing with hepa and carbon filters and some iirc Plasmacluster Ion technology.
I should have been a little more specific …
Even by not subscribing to the paid subscriptions he said he had to subscribe to the basic subscription, which enables the app.
It looked like they will also drop a random paid feature into the basic for a limited time, every few weeks another feature, so people get to test it. That’s what the ad in the app suggested.
I didn’t think about the one time purchase to be honest. I assume it to be featured in a submenu, to make it less prominent than the subscription, in order to get a bigger number of subscribers.
I went Audi but to be completely honest Hyundai and Kia make the best EVs.
I needed a single payment lease and BMW does those with zero hassle.
I just got the Ford Mach-e last weekend and I’m super happy with it.
Yeah, I like the Mach-e a lot too. I think it maxes out at 150 kW of charging speed, which is the same as my Audi. But the Hyundai does 240 kW and that’s super speedy!
Did u have to unlearn how to use an indicator?
Isnt that a mandatory class before they let u buy one?
You know I haven’t been to a dealership yet to find out.
Same
Similar vibes than Reddit api pricing
Reddit got the idea from Elon’s twitter API fees. This is Elon being consistent(ly terrible).
Si musk pulled a Reddit spez?
Not surprising as musk is a scammer who got incredibly lucky, always has been.
Fuck spez and fuck musk
.
It’s only going to get worse year over year as we move towards a dystopian corporation ran future.
The U.S. leading the pack on testing how much a rich person can get away with while directly interfering with a d profiting from the government, which is funded by the people.
It’s just another grift, but this time in the open, corporate sponsored politicians being elected as presidents is going to become the norm. The only thing it takes is money to influence an undereducated populace.
The only thing it takes is money to influence an undereducated populace.
We got the government the average person deserves…
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Or until the populace gets smarter.
No sign of that happening yet, especially with the results of a certain election in a certain country.
Didn’t they already do this with Xitter?
Yes the blue bird website did it first iirc
So musk pulled a spez who pulled a Dorsey
Almost like they’re all greedy pigboys or something… 🤔
No, the api changes were musk not dorsey
I’m surprised devs didn’t see the writing on the wall after Twitter all but murdered its API
Wasn’t that still Dorsey twitter though?
I could swear it was too, but I double checked before the comment.
Elon closed the deal on Oct 28, 2022 according to Wikipedia, and the first API woes I remember was the killing of third-party clients, which happened in Jan 19, 2023
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One more reason I’m glad I bought a car with CarPlay / Android Auto support.
Can’t speak to apple but AndroidAuto basically only allows google apps on it already. I can’t take my third party map app and use that instead if google maps.Apparently this is no linger true. Hooray!
CarPlay allows third party maps for sure.
So I looked into it again and yeah it looks like this changed within the last few years. Neat! The last time I looked was back in 2020 and none of the apps I wanted to use worked on AndroidAuto. When I looked into it back then one of the devs said google was blocking them, which is par for the course for google.
My car is so old it still has a cassette player, so this isn’t something I regularly look into; just whenever I get a rental or something. Thanks for the correction.
I’m confused. Non google maps can run on Android auto and can even run on the Home Screen view. Same for CarPlay and alternatives to Apple Maps.
I’m not sure what exactly the previous commenter said but map apps in particular only show up if installed through the Play Store. I found that out after trying to get Organic Maps working through F-Droid and Aurora Store. If you’re rooted you can change the app’s ‘installed from’ field to the Play Store and it will show up.
My guess is that Google, like Apple, it’s pretty nervous about letting developers go crazy with UIs that are used while driving.
I know that, for CarPlay, the approval process is more ridged than with a mobile or desktop app.
My guess is that Google and Apple don’t want to be found liable for dangerous / distracting technology.
Its only “Navigation” apps though, media and messaging apps work just fine in Android Auto from another source or sideloaded.
Interesting. TIL.
Damn that’s crazy I didn’t realize my third party map app was actually just Google maps
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Imagine trying to sell cars and then pulling some shit like this
Reminds me of the Fall Out Boy song “Dead on Arrival”.
Or, one of the original punk bands, DOA
Or the old saying “Dead on Arrival”
